Tenancy Termination Notice - Please help/advise

Bill11

wesleyad said:

One thing that I would say that might muddy the waters. You may be correct, you could have cause for complaint against the agent for misrepresentation. However you signed a contract with the landlord. You never had a verbal contract with the LL (they weren't present). So legally you have the valid contract with the break clause as written.

I would say the only way forward is to give notice as required by the contract. If this ends up being more than the one month, you can then use the recording against the agent for misrepresentation and get some money back from them (not that this would be a certainty as they will simply argue the contract supersedes the conversation). 

The contract is actually signed with the agency not the landlord. 

Morbier

Bill11 said:

The contract is actually signed with the agency not the landlord. 

The agent is acting on behalf of the LL, so even if you signed 'with the agent' the actual contract is between the tenant and the landlord. 

Sachs

I'm impressed by how many people on this board are experts on contract law! Such confidence in their advice around the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008!

Just so we are clear, the landlords agent stated terms under which your partner moved in to a house, this creating a tenancy. A contract was then sent later with different terms to the existing tenancy and posters here are confidently asserting that this doesn't represent a misleading or untruthful commercial practice.

The reality is this is a complicated and time consuming situation to unravel rather than a 'haha you signed a bit of paper, tough luck!'

Your options are either pay the final two weeks or don't. If you don't you will need to submit evidence to the DPS including your recorded conversation however I suspect it may be above their pay grade.

sal_III

Bill11 said:

sal_III said:

Did she receive a copy of the contract via e-mail etc? If so, that would stand over any verbal conversation recorded or not. Don't have to be signed, she moving in is sufficient proof that she accepted the terms.

I would stop right there and instead of burning bridges with LA/LL I would ask them to remarket the property ASAP and agree to release you from rent liability from the point a new tenant moves in, minus any re-marketing fees. This will give you a better chance of mitigating your expenses.

The break clause is bog standard, not onerous in any way, so you have zero chance pursuing this angle. The fact that your partner didn't read the terms and only relied on a verbal conversation, won't help you. You should have planned the move accordingly. 

She didn't receive any contract prior she moved all her belongings to the apartment. 
That's what we managed to agree with the agency - we will find a tenant replacement ourselves, but they still want to charge her early termination fee. 

As long as she received a copy of the T&C and didn't raise concerns at the time the implication is she accepted them. Plain and simple. Forget about what was said verbally recorded or not.

Are they charging you early termination fee on top of the rent due or instead? Or are you confusing the two?

If you give notice now, you are liable for the rent until 9 April. They can't charge you termination fee on top of that. What they can do is charge you a fee if they agree to early surrender of the tenancy.

Either way if they are not going to make it financially worthwhile to surrender the tenancy prior to 9 April, I would not hand back the keys early than that and keep possession of the property until the end.

Sachs

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/835089/Guidance_for_lettings_professionals_on_consumer_protection_law.pdf

sal_III

Sachs said:

I'm impressed by how many people on this board are experts on contract law! Such confidence in their advice around the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008!

Just so we are clear, the landlords agent stated terms under which your partner moved in to a house, this creating a tenancy. A contract was then sent later with different terms to the existing tenancy and posters here are confidently asserting that this doesn't represent a misleading or untruthful commercial practice.

The reality is this is a complicated and time consuming situation to unravel rather than a 'haha you signed a bit of paper, tough luck!'

Your options are either pay the final two weeks or don't. If you don't you will need to submit evidence to the DPS including your recorded conversation however I suspect it may be above their pay grade.

Only (at least as far as OP description of the conversation goes) it's not different. The written term is still one month notice, only being tied to rent due dates, which is standard practice in AST. So unless the agent specifically said 30 days or a calendar month or something similar, OP hasn't got a leg to stand on.

If OP wanted to claim unfair trading practice or misinterpretation, the time to so was upon receiving the written copy of the AST. Not months later. Any contract can be changed - for example banks and mobile phone operators regularly their T&C sending you a copy of the new T&C. You not objecting to them implies you are happy with the changes. Same goes here, the later received written copy of the contract would override the verbal T&C.

But INAL if OP wants legal advice this is not the place to receive one. This place is for practical advice, which is:

The TDS arbitration is almost guaranteed to award the rent due to the LL under these circumstances. OP might have an option to then sue the LL for the amount back, but it's longest of the long shots and is guaranteed to cost more than the disputed amount. Pay the money owed and move on. Learn your lesson to read the AST next time.

Sachs

I agree your practical advice and I even agree that OP is probably mishearing what is being said in the conversation. However if we take it on face value that the tenant asks, "can I move out with 4 weeks notice from any date?" And the agent says 'yes.' They then create a tenancy on that basis which the agent then attempts to change without making clear to them I do not at all agree under consumer protection legislation that's it's a 'tough luck, you signed.' That's the whole point of consumer protection regulation.

Bill11

Hi Everyone and thank you all for replies.

The fact is that the contract is actually a Lodger contract, not an AST. Also, the deposit is not placed in the DPS as far as we checked as this is not mandatory under lodger arrangements with live-in landlord. 

Available recourse is to complain to PRS for not adhering to code of practice.

The issue we have is that the notice is tied to a due date.

We have not explored the early surrender of the tenancy yet. They want an early termination fee if we manage to find someone to take over my partner's contract. It's not really about the keys, but about not loosing the deposit and a new place that we have secured. 

When she was in conversation with the agent, which we have on record, it was clearly stated 1 months notice any time, and nothing was said that it must be given on a specific date. Problem is that she didn't have a reason to believe that it would be written differently in the contract until the actual matter has surfaced. 

The term that was changed was so material at the time when the contract was formed that would it be highlighted she wouldn't proceed with moving in, therefore, it's not your standard "T's and C's" from banks which you agree if you don't reply, and it's applicable already to existing relationships and is different.

Also, think about it in terms - you talk to supplier, you agree that he will deliver 5 cars for price of X. You pay the X on the same day. The next day supplier delivers only 3 out of 5 cars for the price of X to your warehouse. In the meantime you are in the office with the supplier to sign the paperwork. You then go to your warehouse and see that instead of 5 cars you have 3. You go back to your supplier asking for the remaining 2 cars and he waves you with a paper that you signed, which says he will only deliver 3 cars for the price of X, while you have a record of the initial agreement for delivery of 5 cars. You actions - suck it up?

We spoke to a landlord yesterday, and he is happy to have a 1 month notice and cover any days after the rent due date on a pro-rata basis, however, he has also an agreement with agency of some sort, which he is not sure about, and he is not particularly well-versed, so he is likely to go with whatever the agency will tell him, which can be easy to foresee - agency makes money from the landlord, so they will bsh*t him as well.

We do understand the practical advice and that's what we are trying to do - resolve the matter reasonably and amicably. Also, "it is a long process to do otherwise" is exactly the reason why scam agencies get away with what they do and we want to at least try to pin them down and work hard to get away with that conduct.

elsien

It would have been helpful if you'd mentioned it was a lodger in your first post as the advice given would almost certainly be different. There's little point in giving inaccurate information then expecting the advice given to be correct. 
More to the point, why on earth is your girlfriend going via the agent when the landlord is living in the property with Her? They must see each other pretty much every day, just sort it out directly without all the agents Chinese whispers going on.

notrouble

Why do you keep referring to a 'tenancy'?

After X posts you suddenly introduce new highly relevant information "it's a licence /Excluded Occupier agreement - not a tenancy.

(and why does this stupid new forum not display post counts...? Or have decent imogees...?!)