Calling all Self-Build / Builders / Regulation experts

homeless9

Hi people.....

I have come across a workshop which has a driveway and is along a residential street. It's as if the neighbour sold off their driveway and part of their garden (maybe with the workshop in place, many years ago. The driveway is level with the neighbouring houses and the workshop takes up the whole 'garden' footprint - it runs alongside the neighbours gardens and the walls of the workshop may even act as their garden fence.

I am interested in possibly buying this , knocking it down and rebuilding a small residential 1 bedroom home within the same footprint. The good thing is this workshop is not on green belt land, it's positioned within an area where the borough wants to encourage new housing. The limitations are that the property is pretty narrow at ~2.5 metres, but ~19 metres long.

1. As far as I understand things, as this workshop is within 2 metres of the boundary I can build to a max height of 2.5m. I'd therefore plan to build a square/oblong shaped building with a height of 2.5m and a flat roof. Is this ok?

Currently the workshop has a triangular roof. The eaves are approx 2 metres high and the roof's peak is approx 2.5m.

I am not sure why fences are only allowed to be 2 metres high, but any garden buildings can be 2.5 metres high. And I am wondering if this workshop acts as the neighbours wall would that affect what I can do?

2. Are there any rules on fire safety that I should consider as to regards to windows? I am thinking that maybe there is some rule where I'd need to be able to escape the bedroom which would be placed right at the end of the 19 metre long property. I would not be able to put windows on the sides of the property as they would look onto the neighbours gardens or be blocked by a fence. At the rear of the property I'd put in a window, but the window would lead to a very small outside area surrounded by fencing. Would this therefore not pass some rules and lead to me not being allowed to build the property. And is there anyway I can get around this?

Thanks for your help.

FreeBear

Sounds reminiscent of 15 1/2 Consort Road in Peckham - A tiny plot sandwiched between two larger houses that featured on Grand Designs a few years back. Although, at 2.5m wide, you are going to face some serious challenges - Look at micro homes for inspiration, and don't discount the idea of digging down to get extra space.

thearchitect

I'll be honest, it sounds like an expensive disaster in the making.

davidmcn

The height limits you're quoting are for permitted development i.e. how high you can build your garden fence/wall without needing planning permission. If you're creating a new dwelling then you'll need planning permission anyway, no matter what its size/height is. The criteria for what sort of dimensions the planners will accept are therefore somewhat different, but (obviously) new houses aren't limited to 2.5m height.

homeless9

thearchitect said:

I'll be honest, it sounds like an expensive disaster in the making.

For what reasons?
This is what I am looking for, a reason as to why this would likely fail to get planning permission.

If it's the size you are referring to, there are apartments out there with just as narrow rooms, and/or with the sofa practically in the kitchen, you could cook your soup whilst watching Loose Women.

homeless9

davidmcn said:

The height limits you're quoting are for permitted development i.e. how high you can build your garden fence/wall without needing planning permission. If you're creating a new dwelling then you'll need planning permission anyway, no matter what its size/height is. The criteria for what sort of dimensions the planners will accept are therefore somewhat different, but (obviously) new houses aren't limited to 2.5m height.

Cheers David,

As long as I can achieve a height of 2.5m then that's great. If this is likely to be accepted then that's all I need, but happy to build higher if regulations allow me to....

My concern is that the workshop runs alongside the neighbours gardens. The whole plot is inverted compared to the rest of the street with the building covering the footprint of the garden and the garden or should I say driveway running level with the neighbouring houses.....

If I was to build any higher than the current height of the workshop then I'd be blocking sunlight going into one of the neighbours gardens, so I am not sure on the rules here. I'd be surprised if I'd be entitled to build a 2 storey house here as nobody would be allowed to build a 2 storey house in their gardens on a road like this with neighbours all around. But maybe  this is different as the Workshop has sat here for at least 60 years, so not sure if this historical presence means there is more scope to do more.

I am waiting for an exact width of the property. Ideally I think it needs to be at least 2.75m wide as I have read this is a 'Minimum Space Standard' for a bedroom. I'm not sure if Minimum Space Standards are a legal requirement, but a local authority may adhere to these standards, so I'd stay away if the width is less than the 2.75m.
I believe the gross internal floor space meets the minimum space standard for a 1 bedroom property.

Doozergirl

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. 

You're applying legislation on permitted development and random space requirements instead of looking at the primary issue - the principal of development.

Before even considering what a building looks like, the first question that the planners will want to answer is "Is this plot suitable for a dwelling?" 

Now, London is different to a lot of the country because there is less space, so you would be more likely to get something than out in a random market town where they expect everything to look pretty similar BUT it goes without saying that one is going to need a very clever architect and planning consultant
to propose something of significant architectural merit to break the pattern of a street.  

Something that sounds like a bed in a shed plonked in amongst back gardens probably
isn't going to wash.  The existence of the present building does not warrant a change of use.   You need expert advice.

homeless9

Doozergirl said:

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. 

You're applying legislation on permitted development and random space requirements instead of looking at the primary issue - the principal of development.

Before even considering what a building looks like, the first question that the planners will want to answer is "Is this plot suitable for a dwelling?" 

Now, London is different to a lot of the country because there is less space, so you would be more likely to get something than out in a random market town where they expect everything to look pretty similar BUT it goes without saying that one is going to need a very clever architect and planning consultant
to propose something of significant architectural merit to break the pattern of a street.  

Something that sounds like a bed in a shed plonked in amongst back gardens probably
isn't going to wash.  The existence of the present building does not warrant a change of use.   You need expert advice.

This is one thing I'll never understand. A workshop which could be used as a noisy carpenters premises, that currently looks like a shanty hut and has a driveway which has fallen to pieces is seen to fit in with the neighbourhood than a well built, well presented dwelling.

i wouldn't be building some modern spaceship looking property. Though I have seen grand designs before and a  huge white modern box of a house was allowed to be  built  on a victorian street.

And people can freely paint their homes in magenta if they wish, people can throw dirty nappies or used dog poop bags on the floor in their front gardens and it's fine....that's something i see all the time. You can let you house fall apart and garden be overgrown and that's fine also.

So I never understand these rules.

The only thing that will stand out is it will be a small home, but well presented. I could even fence it off if people are aghast at a small home on their street. 

Doozergirl

Do you know who it belongs to? 

When you say it could be used as carpenter's workshop, was it?  Because the classification of a building can have some impact on what might be allowed. They may prefer a dwelling.  

I haven't said that you can never have it.  I was in a similar situation with an old car breakdown/recovery workshop behind our existing house. It took 4 years of hell to get planning permission and a lot of work.  It certainly wouldn't have happened if I'd have been looking at the permitted development rights of existing dwellings instead of the NPPF, Local Development Plan and Residential Design Guide...

homeless9

Doozergirl said:

Do you know who it belongs to? 

When you say it could be used as carpenter's workshop, was it?  Because the classification of a building can have some impact on what might be allowed. They may prefer a dwelling.  

I haven't said that you can never have it.  I was in a similar situation with an old car breakdown/recovery workshop behind our existing house. It took 4 years of hell to get planning permission and a lot of work.  It certainly wouldn't have happened if I'd have been looking at the permitted development rights of existing dwellings instead of the NPPF, Local Development Plan and Residential Design Guide...

I only have the name of the person who owns it, I don't know them at all.

Thanks for the Local Development Plan and Residential Design Guide tips.....I will have a good read of those.

It was a 'builders yard and workshop' and in 1969 they tried to change use to a 'printers workshop' and it was refused - no idea why.

Then in 2006 permission was given to change the premises from 'Storage and delivery of drainage equipment' to a premises for the 'Preparation and delivery of party food'.

So no, not a carpenters workshop currently, but if someone buys this premises maybe they'll be allowed to change it to something construction based, it was a builders workshop at some point.

Yeah, was just ranting about how things work here in the UK. There is all these rules about building something in keeping with the neighbourhood, but as I say, there are a lot of people who aren't house proud and will leave their house looking a mess yet the planning authorities are worrying about whether the bricks on your extension match the bricks the next door neighbour has. Meanwhile Sandra down the road has painted her house bright green.

And as I say, this workshop I am interested in looks like a slum house...... This is just a mockup I have done, not saying this is what I'd build, it's just an example. Left is what it currently looks like, right is proposed.



And here is a mockup of the floor plan:



And to give an idea of the interior I have a couple of Kitchen/Lounge examples of existing properties:

thearchitect

I admire your ambition but let's flag up some issues.

Firstly, no part of your new house will be permitted to extend beyond your property boundary  That sounds easy but think about eaves, guttering, and the like.  Underground, it means you can't have a scarecement on your footings so that'll be a raft slab foundation your using.  Assuming that your site is 2.5m wide, and allowing for a margin of error, then you're got perhaps 2.25m clear external width.  That assumes, incidentally, your neightbours let you scaffold their property to build or else you're on some nifty pre-finished panel system that is craned in...

Moving on, even if you go for something like SIPSwith a (say) external rainscreen then your minimum external wall thickness is going to be 250mm all round.  That takes your internal structural width of 1.75m.   If that isn't bad enough, incidentally, your external walls to the boundary will probably have to have a medium period of fire resistance and low spread of flame, which carries a cost.

But let's move back to the interior.  Because of your SAPS calculations you'll need a sensible degree of air tightness, even with SIPS, and the normal way to do that is to have a services void all round.  Allowing for 38x19 timber battens and 12.5mm plasterboard, that's another 100mm of your total clear width internally - making it around 1.65m.

Now, your plan assumes a corridor with an adjacent shower room.  I'll tell you right now that the minimum internal width for a sensibly functioning main toilet is going to be 900mm.  Allow 50mm for the partition (which will bounce to blazes) then you have just 1.6m clear for your rooms. A standard double bed is 1.35m wide, by the way, so not a lot of wiggle room each side never mind bedsite cabinets and so on.

In fact, it's going to be like sitting in a corridor.  On the top floor we can get in light by way of rooflights (but watch those fire requirements), however unless we incorporate a central lightwell of some description then it's going to be quite dark in the central part of the ground floor.

This can all be addressed, of course.  Designing a house in a shipping container is a normal 1st year university project for architectural schools.  I have seen cute ideas such as box beds, folding beds, narrow frameless staircases, and so on.  What it is not, however, is easy.  Or cheap. 

And that, as others have pointed out, is before we even get to the Planning issues.

Sorry to be negative, but you need to be realstic about the challenge ahead of you if you want to continue or you run the risk of a very serious disappointment after you have invested more time and effort.