NGP charges for residential space I have a permit for...

NotGoodAtThis

I know the obvious solution lies with my landlord, but my building manager has so far been quite unwilling to help. They contacted NGP but were told that I needed to appeal as normal. This appeal was then denied (somewhat inevitably, from reading around here).

Jumping back to some details:

I'm a resident in a block of flats and was issued a permit for the non-designated spaces associated with the building. Parking is not mentioned in my lease, but I do have email confirmation of this being arranged with the building manager. When I first moved in in July I was also issued a charge by NGP before I'd been issued a permit, this was overturned with the help of the building manager. Since then there has been a change in staff and I think the current building manager is less experienced. Her latest email to me:

"We managed to cancel the fines at the beginning of the tenancies as the parking company hadn't yet given out any permits.
We do have the right to cancel on grounds that they deem acceptable and if we contact them within 14 days of the fine being issued.
I have contacted them on your behalf and they have sent the response that I passed onto yourself, I am unable to do anything else at this stage I do apologize."

I have two separate charges in November sent to the keeper's address, which is my mother's address (I'm a student). Unfortunately there was no one around for a couple of weeks to open post, and we'd assumed that all letters referred to the same initial charge. This meant that I only appealed one of the charges online before the time limit. As mentioned above I tried to enlist the help of the building manager again and subsequently appealed, but this has been fruitless.

At this stage the NGP appeals page on their website was only giving me options to pay or identify the driver, so I emailed their general enquiries address. I was fobbed off again and invited to provide driver details, and told "as we have limited access to your records we will not be entering into discussions regarding your PCN via email".

I wrote to them on 27/1/20 restating that I have a permit and asking them to cancel both of the charges. No response yet.

Today I received a letter from Direct Collection Bailiffs Ltd giving me 14 days to pay £160, which after reading around I think I will ignore for now.

I've emailed my MP, and I'm just wondering if there is anything else I should be doing? Should I lean on my landlord/building manager more?

Thanks for any help, and sorry if I've missed something obvious in the newbie thread.

Redx

Yes you should lean on them again , they have the power to cancel PCN,s (invoices)

If they are telling you that the PCN,s are fines , they are mistaken

There is no easy answer

It's either get the manager to cancel it , or hope a judge will do so , in court

Dcbl are sending you debt collector letters and can be disregarded

The_Deep

Your landlord cannot in fact be much help, although he/she can offer moral
support, read this,

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]what does your lease/AST say about parking? Does it mention the need to display a permit? If not then it may take primacy over the self serving TnC of the scammer, and interfere with your lawful right to “quiet enjoyment” of your property, possible an offence under The Landlord and Tenants Acts.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]

beamerguy

but my building manager has so far been quite unwilling to help. They contacted NGP but were told that I needed to appeal as normal. This appeal was then denied (somewhat inevitably, from reading around here).

Could it be because the manager is £££ part of the action ???

Today I received a letter from Direct Collection Bailiffs Ltd giving me 14 days to pay £160, which after reading around I think I will ignore for now.

DCBL are acting as debt collectors so you ignore

Next stage could be a letter before claim from DCB Legal giving you 30 days to respond.
If they add the fake £60 then DCBL are going against POFA2012 and the Supreme court which clearly says they cannot.

READ ALL ABOUT ABUSE OF PROCESS
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6014081/abuse-of-process-district-judge-tells-bwlegal

Coupon-mad

Keep pushing that new Business Manager who needs to wise up and cancel these.

NotGoodAtThis

Thanks for the responses, I appreciate your time.

I doubt that the building manager is in on it, I think it's just an example of someone naively believing "authority" and not wanting to get involved. In response to an email I sent yesterday they have now forwarded the matter on to the landlord, so hopefully we'll see some progress.

nosferatu1001

So the permits were or were not on display?
Are you sure you have no rights over communal spaces?

Coupon-mad

There are often 'parking easements' allowing use 'with or without vehicles' to access communal parts of an estate, which residents have accumulated and should reasonably be able to rely upon to continue. A PPC cannot interfere with any kind of grant or an established or implied 'easement' (Google it).

NotGoodAtThis

The building manager replied to me:

"I have spoken with the landlord yesterday and he has said that I have already done more than I should do by trying to assist you in getting rid of the fine as the parking company are contracted to do their job (issuing fines to anyone not displaying a permit/displaying one correctly) and they have in fact done the job that they are contracted to. You are more than welcome to continue pursuing the case but unfortunately I am unable to assist any further."

Not quite sure what to make of that to be honest. I also received a reply from NGPM basically saying that because I was outside of the appeals deadline I was unable to appeal to them or the IAS. "We recommend settling this charge to avoid additional costs."

I'm suddenly not feeling optimistic about this. Is it stupid to send them a cheque for £120, which is less than they are currently asking for the two PCNs (£60 + £100, or £60 + £160 if I acknowledge the letter from the debt collectors).

nosferatu1001 said:

So the permits were or were not on display?
Are you sure you have no rights over communal spaces?

They have a photo of my dash without a permit. I imagine that it fell down at some point.

Coupon-mad said:

There are often 'parking easements' allowing use 'with or without vehicles' to access communal parts of an estate, which residents have accumulated and should reasonably be able to rely upon to continue. A PPC cannot interfere with any kind of grant or an established or implied 'easement' (Google it).

There is nothing directly in the tenancy agreement pertaining to parking, but it does contain the following statements which might be relevant:
2. The Property. The property is the property specified above, together with, where applicable, any outside spaces or garden and the Landlord's fixtures and fittings in the premises or as stated in the inventory.
3. Communal Areas. Where the premises are only part of the building, the tenant will have access (in common with others) to appropriate access ways and hallways of other shared facilities, but on to the extent that the landlord can lawfully grant the same.

D_P_Dance

Thes are not fines.  They are invoices from ex clampers and nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation. 

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

NotGoodAtThis

I know they are not fines, that quoted text is a reply from my building manager who had a meeting with the landlord. I also have already contacted my MP.

After some digging I have found out that the landlord/company who owns the building is a subsidiary of a prominent student letting company. Where I live there has recently been a LOT of student push back against bad agents, so I'm going to lean on them a little and see what they do.

Can someone comment on whether the clauses in my tenancy agreement are relevant to the undesignated (but permitted) parking associated with my building? There is also a statement about quiet enjoyment.