Non Attendance fine/prosecution - separated parents

unholyangel

onwards&upwards wrote: »

But if she tried to stop him what if he took them out of the country and refused to bring them back? Or made future contact difficult out of spite? It’s not fair to expect her to police him.

I think you're mistaken. It's not fair to expect the school to police the breakdown in relationships. Is it fair to discriminate based on relationship status? So that those in a stable relationship are each punished while those who have on again off again relationships can escape that same level of obligation towards their children while the school struggles to keep up with whether they're together or not?

The OP hasn't mentioned that her ex forcibly took the children. Given that she did mention writing a note to the school saying she didn't agree with him doing it, it would seem odd to miss a more important detail such as taking or refusing to give back the children.

It is a closed list of exceptions to the offence -
1) sickness or unavoidable cause
2) with permission from the school
3) religious observance
4) where the authority are under an obligation to provide transport and fail to do so.

I can't see this being classed as unavoidable. It must be unavoidable of the childs circumstances, not the parents.

They also have a convenient note from the OP proving they knew the children wouldn't be attending - so paves the way for the more serious of the two offences.

I think OP needs proper legal advice.

onwards&upwards

Give me one other example where an adult is held responsible for and can be punished for the actions of their ex partner.

You can’t, because it would be completely wrong and would never stand up in court.

If the ex failed to put them in appropriate car seats in his car, or left them unsupervised at his home, or (god forbid) assaulted one of the children, is the mother responsible also because they are her children too?

Comms69

onwards&upwards wrote: »

Give me one other example where an adult is held responsible for and can be punished for the actions of their ex partner.

You can’t, because it would be completely wrong and would never stand up in court.

If the ex failed to put them in appropriate car seats in his car, or left them unsupervised at his home, or (god forbid) assaulted one of the children, is the mother responsible also because they are her children too?

Firstly you are incorrect on the very fundamental aspect - you are not punished on the basis of the actions of your ex, you are punished on failure to act.

Secondly there are plenty of laws surrounding children that operate exactly the same way, including cases of abuse and neglect. That is to say where a person owes another a duty of care, and they fail in the duty, they are liable. So this is an extension of that aspect of parenthood.

So to answer your question, yes if she knowingly (which in this case she knew) allowed her ex to take the children in the vehicle without appropriate safety equipment, or knowingly gave the children to the ex to be put into a position where they were going to be neglected, or assaulted - then yes she would be liable.

That is what a duty of care means.

As for other examples of where an adult can be held responsible for the actions of another person, that is often the case in manslaughter cases. It is not limited to romantic relationships, but where a person takes on responsibility for the safety of others. IE takes on a duty of care.

I appreciate you are coming at this from an emotive point of view, and thats ok. But the fundamental legal aspect is clear.

Is the law perfect, no. Most laws arent. But most laws are written to be as broad as possible, so that it is difficult to circumvent for those who try to.

Here's the thing, prosecutions by and large, are a matter of public interest. There are outliers of course, but in 99/100 if a parent does all within their power to ensure the child attends school, a prosecution wont take place.

The problem the OP has is that she failed to ensure that the penalty notice was paid. She also didnt challenge it.

So from the view point of the state she had numerous opportunities to prevent this situation and failed to act.

The reality is that even worst case scenario, it's a small fine. Fines are generally considered to be low level sentences. It's a learn your lesson from this kind of thing. (and also the most common punishment given in courts in E&W)

onwards&upwards

Comms69 wrote: »

I appreciate you are coming at this from an emotive point of view, and thats ok.

Aw, thanks hun! :cool:

I’m not emotional, I just think it stinks.

MissSunshine

I’ve been in a similar situation a few years ago where my ex who lives in the Middle East wanted the children to visit him in February Half term.
Due to losing 2 days in travelling he asked me whether they could have 2 days authorised absence from school.
I agreed it was a sensible suggestion, I completed the request to school saying the children don’t have regular access visits with their Dad and due to their good attendance, permission was given.

The Secondary school Head told me even if we hadn’t asked permission and it was marked as unauthorised absence, our local authority only fines if its 5 days or more. I was also told it’s the Local Authority Education Welfare Officer that decides to issue fines, not the Head.

It seems quite harsh your Local Authority have fined for 3 days absence and given it was the end of Summer term. However this could be because you wrote saying you didn’t give permission.

As the Resident parent with care of the children (and I agree this wouldn’t have been great for the children) you could have refused to let your children be collected by your estranged husband due to having a duty of care to ensure they attend school.

It’s all by the by now as it’s happened, but to move this situation forward speak to your local Education Welfare Officer and possibly School Head, explain the situation to see if you can stop this proceeding further. Don’t write letters of complaint until you’ve exhausted these avenues.

Btw my children had to have a letter from me saying I gave permission for them to travel with their Dad, and vice versa if travelling with me. It wasn’t always asked for, but was there as proof when it was.

Comms69

onwards&upwards wrote: »

Aw, thanks hun! :cool:

I’m not emotional, I just think it stinks.

I didnt mean it like that, perhaps moral POV is better

pinkshoes

MrsSmith4323 wrote: »

Husband came back to UK and flew the children out to Asia 22nd July - 3 days before school broke up.

on 17th June i wrote to the school saying I did not agree with him taking them but I had no choice as he is their father

on 17th september I got a penalty notice -- sent it to my ex and he says he paid the fine on 4th Oct which I have in writing in a letter to the council

I've hear NOTHING from the school or the council until I got a letter dated 27th January 2020 serving the single Justice Procedural notice

I am scared.

I have done nothing wrong and I stated in writing to the school i did not agree with him doing this. at no point have the school contacted me to discuss this.

Please can someone help? I can't afford to rack up any more legal bills on top of an acrimonious divorce from this man.

You TELL your ex husband that he has 7 days to transfer the money for the fine into your account otherwise you will not grant him permission to take the kids abroad again.

(Even with parental right he cannot take kids out of the country without your permission)

Comms69

pinkshoes wrote: »

You TELL your ex husband that he has 7 days to transfer the money for the fine into your account otherwise you will not grant him permission to take the kids abroad again.

(Even with parental right he cannot take kids out of the country without your permission)

It’s too late for that now though. It’s going to court, the option to pay is gone

maman

Comms69 wrote: »

It’s too late for that now though. It’s going to court, the option to pay is gone

I think her only option is to go to court and explain all the circumstances.

I know different Local Authorities interpret the law slightly differently but I'm surprised that action is being taken for just 3 days of absence. Maybe the children have a poor attendance record through the year.

Although I don't understand why the father couldn't wait 3 days to fly out. Mother was complicit though as she said it's what the children wanted.

Comms69

maman wrote: »

I think her only option is to go to court and explain all the circumstances.

I know different Local Authorities interpret the law slightly differently but I'm surprised that action is being taken for just 3 days of absence. Maybe the children have a poor attendance record through the year.

Although I don't understand why the father couldn't wait 3 days to fly out. Mother was complicit though as she said it's what the children wanted.

the only other option is if it's discontinued - often that's the head teachers discretion