Halifax mortgage declined due to apparent cavity wall insulation on timber frame property??

HouseintheCountry

Hi there

I know this is a very specific subject, but if anyone has been in a similar situation, or has any advice, it would be hugely appreciated!

We are interested in a property which is timber framed - we have had our mortgage AIP with Halifax and a valuation carried out, to which the result was negative, due to cavity wall insulation - they did however say, if we can obtain a copy of the certificate from when the insulation was put in, they may reconsider. All fine, except the vendors do not know anything about the insulation...

We looked at the EPC which says ‘insulation assumed’ and the person who carried it out says it is just that, assumed but not a definite. We are concerned that the valuer has taken this information from the EPC as a certainty.

Though our broker has raised this query, we are just waiting on the answer.

Has anyone out there been in this situation who may be able to shed some light on Halifax valuations of a similar sort??

Thank you in advance

[Deleted User]

Are there any small holes in the wall that have been filled in? Maybe the surveyor has seen these as they are a dead giveaway that it's got cavity wall insulation.

The epc person may not have seen so just assumed it has

HouseintheCountry

Not that we are aware of, nor the owners it would seem!
If there is, which would seem odd seeing as the vendors are not aware, then they will be able to obtain a copy of the certificate.
We’ve been told by someone that it would be unlikely for a property of that age to have insulation, so we are totally confused! We shall have to await the response from the valuer.
Maybe we will need to ask the vendors to make a hole in the wall, which we would pay to make good again after.

We are just hoping we can somehow change their decision to being ‘approved’ ..fingers crossed.

Thank you for your reply

jennifernil

A timber frame house should never have cavity wall type insulation installed, the insulation in such houses is fitted within the timber frame itself.

How old is the property and is it a one off of or one of several similar properties?

RelievedSheff

It isn't right to say that timber framed houses should never have insulation.

Many new builds are now timber framed and they are heavily insulated to meet current building regulations.

Old timber framed buildings are of course a different cup of tea.

HouseintheCountry

Thank you for your replies!

I should’ve said, it’s a 1930s stand alone detached bungalow - nothing similar nearby. So it wouldn’t have been insulated at the time. The vendors have no paperwork to say it has any, I’m just wondering if it’s all an assumption.. maybe? Hopefully we will be able to turn this around. It may result in us having a building survey (Hopefully not - wincing at the cost of this seeing as the property is still fully available to others at present and we’ve not agreed on anything)

Thanks again all, much appreciated!

jennifernil

RelievedSheff wrote: »

It isn't right to say that timber framed houses should never have insulation.

Many new builds are now timber framed and they are heavily insulated to meet current building regulations.

Old timber framed buildings are of course a different cup of tea.

If you are referring to what I said, I did not say they should not have insulation, I said they should not have what is often referred to as "cavity wall insulation". There is a difference.

In timber frame houses, the timber frame is the structural element, and all insulation is within the wall panels. Outside of that there is a cavity to provide the ventilation of the frame, and then an outer skin of brick or other material. The cavity must never be filled as the ventilation is essential for the health of the timber frame.

jennifernil

HouseintheCountry wrote: »

Thank you for your replies!

I should’ve said, it’s a 1930s stand alone detached bungalow - nothing similar nearby. So it wouldn’t have been insulated at the time. The vendors have no paperwork to say it has any, I’m just wondering if it’s all an assumption.. maybe? Hopefully we will be able to turn this around. It may result in us having a building survey (Hopefully not - wincing at the cost of this seeing as the property is still fully available to others at present and we’ve not agreed on anything)

Thanks again all, much appreciated!

When it was built, it may have have some insulation, just not very much! it should certainly not have had the cavity filled. To check, you would have to either remove a brick or two to take a look, or there may be access to the wall head from the roof space.

If it has had the cavity filled, the timber frame could be in a bad way. As said above, there should be evidence in the outer skin of the wall that this has been done.

Here is some info on how timber frame houses are insulated these days


https://www.self-build.co.uk/choosing-insulation-timber-frame-home/

jam0366

Just to say
Our bungalow has a couple of small bore holes in the outer wall that have been filled in, reason being we thought that we could take advantage of free cavity wall insulation and free loft insulation being offered [about 10 years ago] via a government inititive, it was only when a chap was sent to do the test bore holes that we were informed that as it was a timber frame house and as such it was not appropriated and could therefore not be installed [we did get the loft insullation].

Perhaps something similar occurred with your property and on seeing these incorrect assumptions have been made.

gj373

If you give CIGA (https://ciga.co.uk/) a call they may be able to advise if a guarantee is in place for the insulation and if so when it was installed.

Retired_Mortgage_Adviser

I don't think anyone is saying that "timber framed houses should never have insulation."

They are talking specifically of cavity wall insulation, where the space between the brickwork and the timber frame is filled with insulation. Once wall cavities are filled with insulation, the air circulation is drastically reduced, increasing the risk of condensation, which when trapped against a timber frame can lead to the wood rotting. Hence the reluctance of lenders to lend against such properties.

RelievedSheff wrote: »

It isn't right to say that timber framed houses should never have insulation.

Many new builds are now timber framed and they are heavily insulated to meet current building regulations.