But, I thought I had paid!

Nogoodnik

Hi,

Firstly thanks to all those who have contributed to the stickies at the top of this forum, SO helpful for a total newbie such as myself.

The Keeper has received a PCN - (issued way over a month after the alleged parking incident. Thought there was a time limit on this?) Keeper was going to ring them straight up, but thankfully read the stickies on here first.

On the day in question the Driver parked under a sign that stated 2 hours free, £1 after, and to make payment any time during the stay, and before leaving the car park - via phone or app. All fine.

Driver stayed 2.5 hours in total, and so was expecting to pay a pound or whatever for the 30 mins.
Driver rang their automated number *before leaving, at the end of the stay* and went through the details - entering the car reg and everything else they asked for. All automated.

Driver thought nothing of it, until receiving this PCN, checked bank statements and no payment was taken on the day of the alleged offence or in the days after - but obviously Driver thought it had been paid on the day!

Phone records show a phone call of a full 5 minutes, where Driver provided details with the full intention of paying for parking.

The PCN company is BPA registered and has a website I can appeal through - is this Keeper's first port of call?

In the stickies it says not to name the driver, so all communications will be written in the 3rd person.

But how does one state that:
A) they took over a month to issue it to us (it's a lease/hire car, which may make a difference)
Driver tried to pay on the day in good faith, but no money was taken.

Thank you so much.

Coupon-mad

I have received a PCN - (issued way over a month after the alleged parking incident. I thought there was a time limit on this?)

You know from the NEWBIES thread that there are POFA regs if they wanted to hold the hirer liable, but your ALSO know because the NEWBIES thread tells you this as well, that they don't have to use the POFA and some PPCs never do.

I was going to ring them straight up, but thankfully read the stickies on here first.

Good!

The PCN company is BPA registered and has a website I can appeal through - is this my first port of call?

Yes, you know that from the NEWBIES thread, unless there is a retailer to complaint to as well.

In the stickies it says not to name the driver, so I will write in the 3rd person.

Of course, using the template.

But how do I state that:
A) they took over a month to issue it to us (it's a lease/hire car, which I'm aware may make a difference)

You use the lease/hire car template instead! The one lower down the NEWBIES thread...

I tried to pay on the day in good faith, but no money was taken.

Come on, you know not to say that!

Which PPC?

Did they enclose the Hire Agreement with the NTH?

Nogoodnik

You use the lease/hire car template instead! The one lower down the NEWBIES thread...

Right, that had been missed - thanks.

Come on, you know not to say that!

Um, that's exactly what was going to be said!? That's wrong? Ok, let me find the template...

Nogoodnik

Ok

Do I lead with the phone records that I tried to pay?
Were they supposed to notify me within a month?

Fruitcake

If the lease company is the registered keeper and has the V5C, then you appeal as hirer/lessee using one of the edna basher template letters.
If you are the registered keeper and hold the V5C then you appeal as keeper using the template in blue text from the NEWBIES.

Either way you need to edit your posts to remove information about who parked/paid etcetera. Only ever refer to The Driver or The Keeper who are two different people.

Please answer all questions when asked, we do this to help you not just for the fun of it.

Was a NTD given?

What happened when you complained to the landowner?

Have you complained to your MP yet about this unregulated scam.

Coupon-mad

I tried to pay

Do I lead with the phone records that I tried to pay?

Think about it, you mean the driver tried to pay:

In the stickies it says not to name the driver, so I will write in the 3rd person.

Were they supposed to notify me within a month?

No, there is no 'send it within a month' timeline defined in the hire car section of the POFA that you need to read. I asked you some pertinent questions:

Which PPC?

Did they enclose the Hire Agreement with the NTH?

Nogoodnik

Fruitcake wrote: »

If the lease company is the registered keeper and has the V5C, then you appeal as hirer/lessee using one of the edna basher template letters.
If you are the registered keeper and hold the V5C then you appeal as keeper using the template in blue text from the NEWBIES.

Either way you need to edit your posts to remove information about who parked/paid etcetera. Only ever refer to The Driver or The Keeper who are two different people.

Got it, that makes sense, thank you.

Was a NTD given?

Sorry, couldn't find this in the acronyms and not sure what NTD means. If it's a notice on the windscreen, then no there wasn't.

What happened when you complained to the landowner?

As it is out of the area, have no idea who the landowner is, and haven't tried to find out as yet - it was just behind a row of little stores.

Have you complained to your MP yet about this unregulated scam.

No, as no problems were anticipated and it's out of the area, hadn't thought to do this.

Nogoodnik

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Think about it, you mean the driver tried to pay:

OK, yep! Thanks

Which PPC?

Civil enforcement LTD

Did they enclose the Hire Agreement with the NTH?

No, the keeper was notified directly via post - just the PCN, no other documents included.

The_Deep

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT][/FONT]

Nogoodnik

EDITED:

I've removed this for the moment whilst I check on a relevant detail, so no-one wastes their time reading it if it's not needed.

MistyZ

Edit - I've seen your reply Nogoodnik and will delete this if it's causing confusion! But I'm being a bit thick and still can't quite understand so will leave it for now in case it is relevant.

Not the right appeal to send. Key point here is that this is a hire car situation, as has been pointed out.

There are very specific steps to take. There are 3 links to hire car first appeals in the Newbies' thread, take your pick. Go to post 1 of Newbies' thread, the links are in this section:

* COMPANY, LEASE OR HIRE CARS ANYWHERE IN THE UK

Another thing to take on board is that the hirer may refer to themself as 'keeper' because they are the 'day to day keeper' though not the 'Registered Keeper'. So simplest thing all round is to stick to 'hirer' which is also correct!

So, hirer, you have not received the documents which the PoFA specifies should be sent to the hirer by the PPC. For some reason that hardly ever happens. When the first appeal is declined, the hirer will receive their POPLA code. Then they prepare a Hire Car POPLA appeal majoring on that PoFA failure. Should win if the POPLA assessor is awake.

Meanwhile, complain to the landowner ASAP once you've identified who that is.