BW Legal and NCP

Redx

You are only the registered keeper if it has your name and you address on the V5C log book

I suspect that you are neither owner (needs a bill of sale in your name). , Nor are you the registered keeper ( name and address on the V5C)

You are the day to day keeper , a lessee

The advice by Edna basher applies to a lessee , including NCP needing copies of the lease documents , which I doubt the have

A proper LBC gives 30 days notice and includes financial forms , doesn't matter what name they give it , just what needs to be included within it , 30 days notice plus financial forms

Do not speak to b w legal or NCP at all

The aim of the SAR is to obtain all your data at this early stage , then check it against POFA and the CRA etc, it may come in handy later , so the sooner the better

It's important that you understand these basics and don't mislead people , especially if you do not understand what an owner , registered keeper , keeper and driver actually mean , so get clued up ASAP

NCP will have obtained registered keeper details from the DVLA (not owner)

They issue the PCN to the RK

The RK has told them the Day to day keeper details , so you received a pcn in your own name , hence why they are mithering you

Nothing to do with ownership

princess80

Redx wrote: »

You are only the registered keeper if it has your name and you address on the V5C log book

I suspect that you are neither owner (needs a bill of sale in your name). , Nor are you the registered keeper ( name and address on the V5C)

You are the day to day keeper , a lessee

The advice by Edna basher applies to a lessee , including NCP needing copies of the lease documents , which I doubt the have

A proper LBC gives 30 days notice and includes financial forms , doesn't matter what name they give it , just what needs to be included within it , 30 days notice plus financial forms

Do not speak to b w legal or NCP at all

The aim of the SAR is to obtain all your data at this early stage , then check it against POFA and the CRA etc, it may come in handy later , so the sooner the better

It's important that you understand these basics and don't mislead people , especially if you do not understand what an owner , registered keeper , keeper and driver actually mean , so get clued up ASAP - I do understand, I have a credit sale agreement, I work in the motortrade and this vehicle is not registered to me but I'm the legal owner, that is the imformation we are specifically told to quote when insuring the vehicle, I am definitely not classed as a lessee

NCP will have obtained registered keeper details from the DVLA (not owner) - NCP obtained my information from CBS who are the car scheme providers and the registered keepers. CBS sent me a copy before i received the PCN from NCP

They issue the PCN to the RK

The RK has told them the Day to day keeper details , so you received a pcn in your own name , hence why they are mithering you

Nothing to do with ownership

The alleged contravention happened on the 30th June by ANPR, ncp didn't send the PCN until the 16th August, so out of the two weeks period for ANPR's.

Can I do anything with this information now? Or use it in my defense if I get sent court papers from BWL?

thanks again in advance for all the responses.

Redx

Yes , except if you are a lessee it's not 2 weeks as that applies to an RK only and you have stated that you are not the registered keeper

There is no register of owners , so they did not receive your details that way either

If you are a lessee , a different section of POFA applies , although they may have missed that elongated deadline too , hence why you need the SAR reply details

Please confirm that you are not the RK , so not named on the V5C log book , in which case someone else is and named you as lessee (Keeper)

Do you have a bill of sale in your name as owner ? If not then you are not the owner , but somebody is , even if it's a bank or lease company, ownership is irrelevant in these cases

If you are a lessee , work out the timescales under POFA that apply to you as lessee

Court papers come from the CCBC in Northampton , not from b w legal , with NCP as the claimant

princess80

Redx wrote: »

Yes , except if you are a lessee it's not 2 weeks as that applies to an RK only and you have stated that you are not the registered keeper

There is no register of owners , so they did not receive your details that way either

If you are a lessee , a different section of POFA applies , although they may have missed that elongated deadline too , hence why you need the SAR reply details - I have sent the SAR to NCP's DPO

Please confirm that you are not the RK , so not named on the V5C log book , in which case someone else is and named you as lessee (Keeper) - no i am not the RK and have never received the V5 for the vehicle

Do you have a bill of sale in your name as owner ? If not then you are not the owner , but somebody is , even if it's a bank or lease company - no bill of sale, only a credit agreement

Court papers come from the CCBC in Northampton , not from b w legal , with NCP as the claimant

Would you suggest i just wait now for further correspondence or write back to BW asking for the breakdown of their clients £60
debt recovery costs as another poster suggested?

nosferatu1001

If its a cerdit agreement, guess wha t- until paid off, the OWNERSHIP of the vehcile doesnt change.
If its a car scheme like my companies (BMW) this is really, really obvious.

Either way
YOU are not the RK, Owner is *irrelevant*, POFA2012 only cares about *keeper*
You are the lessee. They msut comply with POFA2012 para 13 and 14 - have you read these yet? - in terms ofthe documents the PPC *must* send to you

You could respond, pointing out their client has failed to meet the terms of POFA2012 to hold you liable as the vehicle leaser, and their client will be completely aware of this failure as they have not included the required documents under para 13/14 of POFA2012. If your client is unfamilar with this, I am sure thir trade assocation can assist.

Redx

I would not do anything except find out how NCP obtained your details in order to send you an NTK

A SAR might answer that , hence why you were told to email one

As there is a credit agreement , you are NOT the owner , despite what you stated

As your name is not on the V5C , then you are not the RK either

Yes you are the Keeper , so a lessee seeing as you have a credit agreement

The question is , who did NCP write to as RK , then did that RK pass on your details as lessee ?

If they did , was the relevant part of POFA complied with by NCP ?

It certainly was not 2 weeks

Your job is to digest this advice , work out which details you have mentioned are incorrect , then work out what entity you actually are , what liability you have (if any) and why your name is in the frame

Until you do this , nobody can advise you properly

Until you do this , do not contact b w legal

But the SAR advice was and is correct

Be like Poirot on this , yes it's complicated , but you are using incorrect words which cloud the issues

So for example , you are not the owner and not the registered keeper either ( I am not sure why you lied about this , probably confused) , yet somebody passed them your data

Coupon-mad

For the purposes of a response and defence (as log as you have not admitted to driving) I too would suggest you state that the POFA 2012 has not been complied with, as the registered keeper named you as the day to day keeper under a 'car scheme' arrangement and the resulting Notice that was posted to you, neither met paragraph 9 nor paragraphs 13 & 14 of Schedule 4.

I would reply to BW Legal right now, telling them that, and asking 'is your client relying upon the POFA 2012, given the above, and the fact I was not the driver?

Secondly, is the allegation that the payment machine at the exit, prominently and transparently made it clear to the driver, that they had to change the hours/sum displayed before paying, and that despite the ANPR system 'knowing' how long the car had been there and having that data to draw upon, NCP don't bother?

You need to understand their position, to defend your position, so you want to ask those difficult questions now. Then, even if you don't get clear answers you can show your local court Judge you tried and tried to understand what went wrong with their system and did not ignore the unfair PCN.

Also email a SAR to NCP at the same time as replying to BW Legal and tell both of them that you are denying any debt but you are seeking debt advice so they must reply to your queries but put the actual claim on hold for 30 days.

As you said you appealed:

Received a parking fine from NCP which i appealed as a ticket was purchased. They stated that i parked for longer than i paid. It was an anpr car park and on leaving we entered the reg number and the amount came up on the screen which was paid by card. There was no option to select a length of time (i thought that was the point of ANPR car parks!).

They rejected that...

Did you choose 'driver' in the drop down menu when appealing to NCP online? If so then DROP the 'late NTK' and POFA points entirely. An admitted driver cannot use the POFA deadlines. I hope you didn't, because you weren't!

sorry another question that has come to mind is that i wasnt actually the driver, i was in the vehicle but not driving nor did i pay for the ticket.

princess80

Coupon-mad wrote: »

For the purposes of a response and defence (as log as you have not admitted to driving) I too would suggest you state that the POFA 2012 has not been complied with, as the registered keeper named you as the day to day keeper under a 'car scheme' arrangement and the resulting Notice that was posted to you, neither met paragraph 9 nor paragraphs 13 & 14 of Schedule 4.

I would reply to BW Legal right now, telling them that, and asking 'is your client relying upon the POFA 2012, given the above, and the fact I was not the driver?

Secondly, is the allegation that the payment machine at the exit, prominently and transparently made it clear to the driver, that they had to change the hours/sum displayed before paying, and that despite the ANPR system 'knowing' how long the car had been there and having that data to draw upon, NCP don't bother?

You need to understand their position, to defend your position, so you want to ask those difficult questions now. Then, even if you don't get clear answers you can show your local court Judge you tried and tried to understand what went wrong with their system and did not ignore the unfair PCN.

Also email a SAR to NCP at the same time as replying to BW Legal and tell both of them that you are denying any debt but you are seeking debt advice so they must reply to your queries but put the actual claim on hold for 30 days.

As you said you appealed:
Did you choose 'driver' in the drop down menu when appealing to NCP online? If so then DROP the 'late NTK' and POFA points entirely. An admitted driver cannot use the POFA deadlines. I hope you didn't, because you weren't!

- I'm not sure if i chose 'driver' when replying, i can't remember. If/when they comply with my SAR will that tell me?

Thank you for all your advice.

Redx

You would hope that you receive copies of all correspondence

If you said you were the driver , and were driving , then POFA does not help you

If you can swear on oath that you were not the driver , then POFA may help you as a keeper

The timescales and requirements for POFA will depend on what I said earlier , which depends on who is the registered keeper and recorded at the DVLA and on the V5C log book

princess80

thank you all.

I haven't had any response as yet from NCP since I requested the SAR.

Can anyone point me in the right direction of what wording/template i can use when contacting BWL to state that their client has not complied with POFA 2012 paragraphs 12 & 13?

Thank you