SmartParking - The Food Centre (Milton Keynes)

FrustratedDad

Good Afternoon,

I will be upfront and say now that I struggle with taking in lots of information and when searching and reading all these posts it feels like my brain wants to explode. I get all confused and still don't know what to do even though I've read a lot of the posts which really stresses me out so would just like a little guidance please.

When the driver of the car entered this car park they managed to get a space that was the first space on the left as soon as you enter. The driver, his partner and 2 young children were on their way to "Mini Monster's" in order to meet with the children's mother for a contact session which is 2.5 hours as she has supervised contact. The driver has used this car park many times and it has always been a 3 hour stay (now the registered keeper and driver since receiving the fine are aware this must have changed).

This morning the registered keeper has received a PCN which states:

"A Parking Charge Notice (PCN) is payable with respect to the vehicle registration mark **** *** for the alleged breach of advertvised terms & conditions within The Food Centre - Milton Keynes on the **/12/2019.

The signage, which is clearly displayed at the entrance to and throughout the carpark states that this is private land and the car park is managed by Smart Parking Ltd.

By either not purchasing the appropriate parking time or by remaining at the car park for longer than permitted in accordance with the terms and conditions set out in the signage, the parking charge is now payable to Smart Parking Ltd (as the creditor).

There is no mention in the letter of what the time allowed is.

The driver had parked in the first available space on the left as soon as you enter the car park and then walked out through the entrance of where the cars enter the car park. The driver had not noticed a change in the time allowed as the car park was fairly busy and he was keeping an eye on one child and his partner on the other. From leaving the car to reaching the exit must have been about a 10 second walk i've been informed, so by the time they had told the children to keep to one side and was looking ahead at the exit, they did not notice any signs which would have made them aware it had changed from 3 hours to (driver and keeper still are unsure of time allowed as not had chance to go back to car park to check this, as stated last time they went there it was 3 hours and in a lot of posts here people have mentioned it always being three hours as well)

If it was 2 hours the overstay would have been around 30 - 45 mins, but if it was the 3 hours as they had thought and that it was last time they visited, they would have been back to the car in time.

Should the registered keeper or the driver fill out the appeal form with the template below, I would like to add they have supplied photos of the car entering and leaving the car park. The photo entering is very dark with only the Reg visible and no other features of the car including driver visible:

RE PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

- If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

- If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

- in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,

Redx

The keeper of the vehicle should have received a postal notice , the NTK as we call it , which is a PCN , but actually is an invoice

That same Keeper appeals as keeper using the blue text template , no alterations

No blabbing about who was driving , the driver sits on their hands doing nothing

It's that simple

But the first job is the keeper complains to the managing agent of the retail park and gets it cancelled

FrustratedDad

Thanks @Redx, I have emailed the Council asking them for the owner of the car park

Redx

I doubt that the council would know those details , its a matter for the Land Registry

the council should tell you who pays the non-domestic rates, which isnt necessarily the owner

KeithP

This car park crops up frequently here.

Search the forum for food centre milton keynes and you will instantly find 16 posts mentioning it.

This thread in particular might be useful:

Food Centre Milton Keynes MK PARKING FINE

FrustratedDad

Redx wrote: »

The keeper of the vehicle should have received a postal notice , the NTK as we call it , which is a PCN , but actually is an invoice

That same Keeper appeals as keeper using the blue text template , no alterations

No blabbing about who was driving , the driver sits on their hands doing nothing

It's that simple

But the first job is the keeper complains to the managing agent of the retail park and gets it cancelled

Should I send it to the management company what I sent above at the start of the post explaining what happened ? then end it with please can you cancel this PCN.

Redx

partly ,

I WOULD BE COMPLAINING THAT THEY HAVE CHANGED THE ALLOWED PARKING TIME ONSITE AND YET THERE ARE NO EXTRA SIGNS INFORMING REGULAR VISITORS OF THESE CHANGES , CONTRARY TO THE BPA COP

I would tell them that the driver is now aware of the recent changes as are all the rest of the family and it wont happen again, so to cancel this pcn ref xxx0123456789xxx

ArtherMaxwell

Redx said:

partly ,

I WOULD BE COMPLAINING THAT THEY HAVE CHANGED THE ALLOWED PARKING TIME ONSITE AND YET THERE ARE NO EXTRA SIGNS INFORMING REGULAR VISITORS OF THESE CHANGES , CONTRARY TO THE BPA COP

I would tell them that the driver is now aware of the recent changes as are all the rest of the family and it wont happen again, so to cancel this pcn ref xxx0123456789xxx

Yes its a Nightmare, my Aunty was ticketed in Feb she had been using said car park for the last 15 years and is 70 years of age and extremely conscientious such a shame.....

D_P_Dance

Read what Pete Wishart MP said recently in the House of commons about Smart Parking.

"I am sick and tired of receiving emails from people complaining about the behaviour of parking companies, telling me that they will never again visit Perth city centre because of the negative experience they had when they had the misfortune to end up in a car park operated by one of these companies. I have received more complaints about one car park in the city of Perth than about any other issue. That car park is operated by the lone ranger of the parking cowboys: the hated and appalling Smart Parking—I see that many other Members are unfortunate enough to have Smart Parking operating in their constituencies. It has reached the stage where one member of my staff now spends a good part of each day just helping my constituents and visitors to my constituency to navigate the appeals process.
…
The BPA does not have the ability to regulate these companies and has shown no sign whatsoever that it is trying to get on top of some of the sharper practices. The BPA gives a veneer of legitimacy to some of the more outlandish rogue operators by including them in their membership, allowing them to continue to operate. The Bill will oblige operators such as Smart Parking to amend their practices.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Coupon-mad

ArtherMaxwell said:

Redx said:

partly ,

I WOULD BE COMPLAINING THAT THEY HAVE CHANGED THE ALLOWED PARKING TIME ONSITE AND YET THERE ARE NO EXTRA SIGNS INFORMING REGULAR VISITORS OF THESE CHANGES , CONTRARY TO THE BPA COP

I would tell them that the driver is now aware of the recent changes as are all the rest of the family and it wont happen again, so to cancel this pcn ref xxx0123456789xxx

Yes its a Nightmare, my Aunty was ticketed in Feb she had been using said car park for the last 15 years and is 70 years of age and extremely conscientious such a shame.....

And you've told her you found out from the NEWBIES thread here, that Smart Parking can't hold a registered keeper liable, so she appealed as keeper and won easily already?  Like in ALL Smart parking threads where people play it right?