Tenant or lodger?

Felics

Hi all,

I need some advice on whether I am a lodger or a tenant.

So me and my wife began renting a property a week ago. It was on a casual basis with no contract in place (stupid I know). It is only temporary as we are renovating our place and as there are no walls or heating thought it would be best to move out.

The landlord expressed that I could "use the house as I wished and there would be no-one else there". As it was only for 3 months I was happy.

I paid my rent in advance and moved in on 7 Jan 2020.

A few days after moving in the landlord decided (quite randomly) that I couldn't use the lounge. She also mentioned that on odd occasions she may bring her friends over and, on such occasions, I must only use my room.

She has now decided that she wants to set up a new AST for a bedroom only in which some of the restrictions are quite ludicrous. She has essentially restricted all my activities and use to my bedroom, the kitchen and the bathroom (I am not allowed any possession anywhere else).

Note that this is far from what I agreed to and only really went ahead as I wanted access to the house in full like the lounge. She has also stated that she also wants access to the property at all times and can go in and out as she pleases. Initially I asked for a courtesy message just to ensure I/wife was decent - however she refused. I backed down as I didn't want to get thrown out with nowhere to go. At the moment she has at times come in and out 4/5 times a day

Anyways, she sent through a draft on AST on 15 January and after reading and researching I realised I might have some statutory rights. On the AST she has put the "landlords address" as the rental address I am living at. She obviously does not live here but pays all the bills and council tax. She mentioned she lives with her parents nearby.

She has also now asked for a deposit (which I am thinking of refusing given that there was no mention of it before).

My questions are:

- Even if she is registered as living there (i.e. council tax and bills in her name), am I now classed as a lodger even though in her messages to me it was made clear she was not living there and I would have the property to myself.

I ask as the rights of a lodger are quite different to that of a tenant. Can she say as such?

- Can she continue to walk in unannounced? Can she bring around her friends and restrict use of the lounge (I mean legally not practically).

- Can I refuse to provide a deposit. Should I? She has not mentioned a TDS in the AST.

Thanks in advance

SpiderLegs

Now I am a petulant sod so (depending on the exact content of the AST) I would probably sign it, give her a deposit, change the locks, contact her mortgage company, register on the electoral role and inform the council I was living there and finally report her to HMRC.

CIS

On the AST she has put the "landlords address" as the rental address I am living at. She obviously does not live here but pays all the bills and council tax.

The council tax may be an issue as the landlord cannot alter the statutory determination of liability - you're getting well in to a complicated point of legislation.

On the AST she has put the "landlords address" as the rental address I am living at.

If the landlord was actually resident then it couldn't be an AST.

I need some advice on whether I am a lodger or a tenant.

In respect of tenancies and licences the law takes the general view that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's a duck, no matter what you try and call it.


Is the agreement for the whole property and there are no specific terms in it to allow the landlord unfettered access ? What is the term of the tenancy period given in it ?

in_my_wellies

Are you sure the building work will be finished enough for you to move in at the end of three months?

Felics

SpiderLegs wrote: »

Now I am a petulant sod so (depending on the exact content of the AST) I would probably sign it, give her a deposit, change the locks, contact her mortgage company, register on the electoral role and inform the council I was living there and finally report her to HMRC.

It is very restrictive so I'm leaning away from signing it. It essentially states I cannot use the rest of the house now (I'm fine with this apart from the lounge).

I would tend to agree with the rest but I'm old and too tired to go through the hassle of doing all of this ha!

Felics

CIS wrote: »

The council tax may be an issue as the landlord cannot alter the statutory determination of liability - you're getting well in to a complicated point of legislation.



If the landlord was actually resident then it couldn't be an AST.



In respect of tenancies and licences the law takes the general view that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's a duck, no matter what you try and call it.


Is the agreement for the whole property and there are no specific terms in it to allow the landlord unfettered access ? What is the term of the tenancy period given in it ?

So are we saying the duck is a tenant or a lodger?

I am taking from the facts and circumstances that I am a tenant given that she does not live there and has agreed use of the whole property.

She has only NOW asked for unfettered access.

I don't want to go down the road of making it unnecessarily hard for her or myself but need to be firm on certain boundaries.

elsien

Is she living there or isn't she?
Has she got a room there that she sleeps in?
If you're not allowed to use the lounge is anyone else using it?

CIS

I am taking from the facts and circumstances that I am a tenant given that she does not live there and has agreed use of the whole property.

At the moment you probably are a tenant but it's not 100%.

It is very restrictive so I'm leaning away from signing it. It essentially states I cannot use the rest of the house now (I'm fine with this apart from the lounge).

This would probably either create a tenancy on only part of the property or form a licence.


Have a word with Shelter as they can go in to it in more depth with you. https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting

A_Lert

IMHO, you are a tenant and she is criminally harassing you. You paid rent and moved in on the understanding you would have sole use of the property. It doesn't matter that there's no written contract, these actions establish an AST. And you have evidence this was agreed.


How you proceed is up to you, but this "landlord" has made it quite clear she has no sense of boundaries. I think I would either a, say that since she's chopping and changing you don't accept that, you want to leave and you want your money back. Or b, dig in, secure what is your home (change locks or whatever), and contact the local council's housing enforcement team.

SpiderLegs

Felics wrote: »

It is very restrictive so I'm leaning away from signing it. It essentially states I cannot use the rest of the house now (I'm fine with this apart from the lounge).

I would tend to agree with the rest but I'm old and too tired to go through the hassle of doing all of this ha!

How will she know once you’ve changed the locks?

Felics

elsien wrote: »

Is she living there or isn't she?
Has she got a room there that she sleeps in?
If you're not allowed to use the lounge is anyone else using it?

Shes not living there. There are two other rooms which have beds in but are empty.

She is definitely not living there.

No one else is using the lounge as its just me and my wife in the house. She is essentially saying I can't use it.