Overstayed parking at Health Centre

Ss2020

Hi


I have been on the NEWBIES thread and found the first letter to appeal by Coupon-Mad, but I just wanted to make sure if this is the correct procedure.


The letter received is from Britannia Parking, and it is headed up as PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - NOTICE TO KEEPER and was received within the 14 days including the Bank Holidays and weekends.


The car park which is part of a local Health Centre, is relatively small, no more than 10 spaces, has been free to park for as long as I can remember - with no limit to return. However, this alleged offence took place in the evening when the Health Centre was closed advising that the free parking had lapsed and went over by 30 mins.


The driver didn't realise that the parking terms had changed, didn't recall seeing any signs (especially as the site is pitch black in darkness).


Would I need to make changes to the NEWBIES template since they have provided photographic evidence of, time, number plate etc.


Thanks -

MistyZ

It's not okay to park on private land when the facilities the car park serves are closed. So I wouldn't hold out much hope for a landowner complaint (i.e. to the manager of the Health Centre) but personally I'd do one anyway, in addition to sending the appeal to Britannia (I don't think you need to make changes).

If there were mitigating circumstances such as someone having been at the Health Centre for part of the period of parking, then certainly mention that in a landowner complaint.

If terms & conditions have changed, then there should be adequate notice of this displayed for a certain time and it that did not happen then that's something to cover in a POPLA appeal.

Pitch dark car parks are a real issue. Definitely something to go to town on in the signage section of the POPLA appeal.

Britannia won't uphold the appeal but they will provide a POPLA code, that's the main aim of first appeals to most of the PPCs.

Redx

Actually , if you read that newbies thread properly , your first task is to complain to the practice manager if you were a patient and get them to cancel the PCN , especially if parking requirements have changed, no need to mention who was driving , the royal WE will suffice , as in when WE came for the appointment on blah blah

Also read the BPA CoP regarding grace periods plus extra signage when parking arrangements change, if you are not aware of any changes then poor and inadequate signage is the reason

The appeal using the blue text template comes second , but before the 28 day deadline if the landowner does not get it cancelled , so appeal around day 25 , as keeper , no blabbing about who was driving

The third option is popla if all else fails , where signage issues and grace periods will again play a part

Quote the NHS guidelines to the practice manager , these have been around for a few years now

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

Bear in mind it's an alleged overstay , not necessarily the fault of the driver and is actually 2 periods of time , one grace period at the beginning and one at the end to leave , don't be sucked into their idea of what an overstay is if you were a genuine patient

MistyZ

Yep, I sounded a bit negative about landowner complaint. Dunno why. Just do it OP, and with conviction.

Ss2020

Redx wrote: »

Actually , if you read that newbies thread properly , your first task is to complain to the practice manager if you were a patient and get them to cancel the PCN , especially if parking requirements have changed, no need to mention who was driving , the royal WE will suffice , as in when WE came for the appointment on blah blah

Also read the BPA CoP regarding grace periods plus extra signage when parking arrangements change, if you are not aware of any changes then poor and inadequate signage is the reason

The appeal using the blue text template comes second , but before the 28 day deadline if the landowner does not get it cancelled , so appeal around day 25 , as keeper , no blabbing about who was driving

The third option is popla if all else fails , where signage issues and grace periods will again play a part

Quote the NHS guidelines to the practice manager , these have been around for a few years now


Bear in mind it's an alleged overstay , not necessarily the fault of the driver and is actually 2 periods of time , one grace period at the beginning and one at the end to leave , don't be sucked into their idea of what an overstay is if you were a genuine patient

Thank you both, this issue with complaining to the landowner/health centre is that no one was there to use their facilities (they were closed) so not there for an appointment and are not registered to that Heath Centre. So appealing to the land owner to cancel the PCN will be rejected?


When you mention grace periods, is this to allow a certain time to leave the car park? Or are you referring to a period where they notify the general public/users of the car park with the changes to the terms of parking?

Redx

MistyZ wrote: »

Yep, I sounded a bit negative about landowner complaint. Dunno why. Just do it OP, and with conviction.

Don't worry about it , after rereading the post it's not clear if the OP was a patient or not , either they were , or they are bilkers parking on private land with no valid reason for doing so

But if the signage is forbidding and no contract to park was offered , then no consideration = no contract to park for a non patient when the centre was closed

No lighting to read signs doesn't help either , but is a good appeal point

Plus as it's Britannia then the chances are that the wrong company name could be used on the NTK , as was exposed recently in some court cases

Redx

Ss2020 wrote: »

Thank you both, this issue with complaining to the landowner/health centre is that no one was there to use their facilities (they were closed) so not there for an appointment and are not registered to that Heath Centre. So appealing to the land owner to cancel the PCN will be rejected?


When you mention grace periods, is this to allow a certain time to leave the car park? Or are you referring to a period where they notify the general public/users of the car park with the changes to the terms of parking?

Grace periods don't apply to a non patient , the driver was not allowed to park there , so should refrain from doing so , and stay off my driveway too , lol (so a landowner complaint won't help)

Read my last comments about forbidding signage , no contract to park , poor lighting , wrong company name etc

Appeal as keeper using the blue text template , no changes , no need to wait

Umkomaas

If there is no offer of parking (forbidding signs) there can be no contract, therefore the worst this can be is a case of trespass and only the landowner can pursue. That's the most likely legal position, not that Britannia will care, especially if it gets in the way of them rinsing you for £100.

A Judge would probably understand the position if this ever got to court - but you're a long way from that at the moment.

Ss2020

Umkomaas wrote: »

If there is no offer of parking (forbidding signs) there can be no contract, therefore the worst this can be is a case of trespass and only the landowner can pursue. That's the most likely legal position, not that Britannia will care, especially if it gets in the way of them rinsing you for £100.

A Judge would probably understand the position if this ever got to court - but you're a long way from that at the moment.

Redx wrote: »

Grace periods don't apply to a non patient , the driver was not allowed to park there , so should refrain from doing so , and stay off my driveway too , lol (so a landowner complaint won't help)

Read my last comments about forbidding signage , no contract to park , poor lighting , wrong company name etc

Appeal as keeper using the blue text template , no changes , no need to wait

Redx - don't worry your driveway is safe LOL.


OK. So a friend of mine has just sent me these pics as he was nearby. there is a white sign which is right as you would drive in. this reads "CAMERA CONTROLLED MAX STAY 90MIN. T&Cs apply see notice in car park for more details - Private Land" So the 2nd sign is the blue sign which there are 2 either side of the car park, it says " Welcome to XXX, Visiting staff should sign in on arrival. MAXIMUM STAY 90 MIN restrictions and T&Cs apply at all times to all vehicles, £100 parking charge notice". Need to bear in mind that this car park is small probably around 8-10 bays in total.


So, given that the defence would have been no signs and poor lighting are the chances of 'winning' this slimming now??


Sorry I couldn't upload pics kept asking for a URL... NO IDEA?

Redx

Given how bad popla is nowadays nobody can predict the outcome , but an overstay on a private car park will probably lose unless the signage was missed due to no lighting or poor wording

90 minutes is a long time to be there , so even longer than that when not using the premises is cheeky to say the least (I could say more but won't)

It's a gamble , simple as that

If you are appealing , just leave the template as is and appeal as keeper , then let popla decide , mainly on poor and inadequate signage

Change your link to a dead URL , you cannot post a live link like we can , use Imgur because this site won't allow uploaded files

Ss2020

OK, so lets say it gets to popla and it has gone in their favour would the cost be £100? Or could there be further charges applied.
Yes it was cheeky, but this area is extremely busy and people have used this car park when out of hours for decades. looks like a really expensive meal now...