PCN from CP Plus

elbowgrease30

Hi all, have been reading through the threads here but I'm not able to see straightforwardly what to do because I have complicated things for myself a bit here by already having sent correspondence to CP Plus, as well as not being the registered keeper (my brother is), living in Scotland, and mid-process moving to England. Here are the details:

• I lived in Scotland when I parked in a car park in England for just over 2 hours at around 11:30pm (max stay without pay was 2 hours) - I saw no signs at all when I got out of my car and walked to the services immediately as I was a lone female driver (also disabled).
• Brother is registered keeper of the car and received a PCN of £100 (reduced to £60 if paid in 14 days).
• I told my brother to tell CP Plus I had borrowed the car that weekend he did not state that I was the driver. I realise that this isn't ideal that he gave my name but I don't have the kind of relationship with my brother where he would be comfortable fighting this.
• I then received a PCN from them but was ill (couple of A&E trips etc), so didn't reply.
• Received second PCN saying the £60 'reduced' fee was not on offer any more and I would owe £100 now.
• Then received another letter saying they want £140 and have notified me they intend to take me to court.
• I then moved to England.
• I responded with 1st letter of 3 letter process as I incorrectly had thought they were a debt buyer - oops. I also made a Subject Access Request and notified them of my disabilities and illness, and my being vulnerable. The kicker here is that I provided a correspondence address, which they did not respond to. They responded to the address of the registered keeper. The company who does their data protection related stuff (I assume) sent me the Subject Access Request form for me to prove who I am - they want a copy of utility bill, ID, and proof that I am registered keeper of vehicle. I am not the registered keeper so I can't do this, and I will absolutely not fill out the form where they ask if I was the driver of the vehicle. They also sent another letter saying they are considering my 'claim' (I haven't made one), and they are awaiting 'evidence' for this 'claim'. I don't know what they're even talking about so I am back here investigating.

I don't know if I should:

1. Appeal.
2. Ignore - they haven't replied in writing to the given correspondence address in any case so not sure. I am also not sure this would be a great idea considering I sent letter 1 of a three letter process, which includes a conditional acceptance upon their providing evidence - which is also why I am confused as to why they want evidence for me for my 'claim'.
3. Something else?

Thank you for taking the time to read this. Hopefully the information I have provided would be sufficient to see how might be best to proceed. I figured I might want to try and appeal despite me potentially having screwed up already, but then I don't want to further screw things up in light of my having complicated the situation. Hopefully I haven't sabotaged what seems like a straightforward process with CP Plus.

Many thanks!

EDIT: I am diagnosed autistic and actually stayed for so long because I was having a meltdown as a result of this. Nobody attempted to help me. I spent the first two hours of the time in the services on the phone with someone trying to calm me down. So I have some evidence for this, as well as evidence for my autism, and have the bank statement for my purchase of food in the services as well. I don't know if complaining to the services as well as MP and so on could help - I will do this anyway.

Coupon-mad

I told my brother to tell CP Plus I had borrowed the car that weekend he did not state that I was the driver. I realise that this isn't ideal that he gave my name but I don't have the kind of relationship with my brother where he would be comfortable fighting this.

OK, but that a shame! ONE EMAIL from your brother as keeper in Scotland (using our sticky thread appeal template) and CP Plus would have cancelled. Too late now.

You need to report them to the ICO for insisting on too much data to send you a SAR file reply. The ICO can be found online, and you just 'report a concern'.

Also, get help from here:

https://www.equalityadvisoryservice.com/

You have a LEGAL RIGHT to a reasonable adjustment of more free time than an able bodied person and you would win this in court if you confidently showed that right from the Equality Act 2010. The above service can help with complaints about disability discrimination, how to word the complaint to the service provider, etc.

I say you need to write a complaint to MOTO Head Office (I assume that's the Services) and that you MUST admit to being the driver, stop hiding now. You need to get this crushed by being up front and using your rights under the EA 2010.

elbowgrease30

OK, but that a shame! ONE EMAIL from your brother as keeper in Scotland (using our sticky thread appeal template) and CP Plus would have cancelled. Too late now.

You need to report them to the ICO for insisting on too much data to send you a SAR file reply. The ICO can be found online, and you just 'report a concern'.

Also, get help from here:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

You have a LEGAL RIGHT to a reasonable adjustment of more free time than an able bodied person and you would win this in court if you confidently showed that right from the Equality Act 2010. The above service can help with complaints about disability discrimination, how to word the complaint to the service provider, etc.

I say you need to write a complaint to MOTO Head Office (I assume that's the Services) and that you MUST admit to being the driver, stop hiding now. You need to get this crushed by being up front and using your rights under the EA 2010.

Thanks. This is what I was thinking would be the best course of action. I had a mental breakdown in September and ended up in A&E with a chipped knuckle. I had to be prescribed diazepam for continuous anxiety attacks. This is what happened at the services - hour hours drive either way from anyone who could help me, with no physical way to actually leave the services or operate a car without being a direct danger to myself or others.

I suppose it's really obvious, but given my current mental state being extremely fragile, I am not hugely capable of thinking rationally. And I'm getting a bit wrapped up in it all. A friend advised the 3 letter process, and I took the advice blindly. He later berated me for doing it 'wrong' because I had not understood - despite my having thought that 3 letter was not the correct response since they are not a debt buyer. Debt buyers are easy as hell for me, too, since I am disabled they can't really come for me.

Coupon-mad

No idea what the 3 letter process is, but one email from the keeper was all that was needed! CP Plus cancel every one, including those with a Scottish address - when they see our appeal template. The keeper should have appealed, not you.

However, I am sure the Equality Advice Service will assist you in the words needed to write a complaint about disability discrimination to CP Plus and MOTO Head Office, jointly.

Or start just with MOTO, as it is their fault primarily for failing to instruct their parking firm to make reasonable adjustments on their land - and that is NOT covered merely by painting some disabled bays - it is not just about removing physical barriers).

Obviously, attach to your complaint, the PCN and letters from CP Plus to show that they have ILLEGALLY refused to make a reasonable adjustment for you.

Please update this thread to let us know the final outcome, and no paying!

elbowgrease30

No idea what the 3 letter process is, but one email from the keeper was all that was needed! CP Plus cancel every one, including those with a Scottish address - when they see our appeal template. The keeper should have appealed, not you.

However, I am sure the Equality Advice Service will assist you in writing a complaint about disability discrimination to CP Plus and MOTO Head Office, jointly.

Or start just with MOTO, as it is their fault primarily for failing to instruct their parking firm to make reasonable adjustments on their land - and that is NOT covered merely by painting some disabled bays - it is not just about removing physical barriers).

Obviously, attach to your complaint, the PCN and letters from CP Plus to show that they have ILLEGALLY refused to make a reasonable adjustment for you.

Well, he and I know for the future. We are likely going to put cars we jointly own into my name since I am the one who likes to fight companies whose business models are extortion.

The main reason I was upset to receive the PCN is:
There is no visible sign on the way from the car to the services.
I have PTSD, autism, and generalised anxiety disorder and I am NOT going wandering around a car park alone at 11:30pm as a young, vulnerable woman. I'm not risking getting attacked again whilst out alone at night.
Then there are all the other things (unclear signage, poorly placed, etc).

Coupon-mad

Totally agree and even if you had not been disabled, this is worth fighting.

But in your case the EA 2010 says this is illegal - the time has to be adjusted as it is an inflexible, arbitrary time limit that is unsuitable for people with certain protected characteristics - like you.

There is an example about time limits being unfair, in the EHRC statutory Code of Practice for Service Users. You can find it in that document by searching it (control & F) for the word 'tours' (electronic search, not reading the entire thing as someone said they tried!).

Let us know how you get on in the end and if the Equality Service do help.

elbowgrease30

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Totally agree and even if you had not been disabled, this is worth fighting.

But in your case the EA 2010 says this is illegal - the time has to be adjusted as it is an inflexible, arbitrary tie limit that is unsuitable for people with certain protected characteristics - like you.

Let us know how you get on in the end and if the Equality Service do help.

I will definitely update you all as to how this goes. It would probably be important and useful information for other disabled people to be able to use for fighting their own PCNs. I may not use the Equality Service since I might just complain and make clear my rights, but I will definitely use them if they don't back down, since I think they would be stupid not to, given how short my stay was.

I will include as much information as I can when I come back to this thread.

Redx

Bear in mind that Scottish MP,s have just changed the law on new cases from this month , in their Transport Bill

So in future , being an RK in Scotland won't necessarily protect you if they are in your own name

Coupon-mad

No probs with not using the Equality Service as you are good at complaints!

Just make sure you refer to the right parts of the EA 2010 (AND THE STATUTORY CODE OF PRACTICE FOR SERVICE PROVIDERS) and address the complaint primarily to MOTO who have most to lose, if you sued them.