Buy to let advice - would you go ahead in the current market?

hearts

carolt wrote: »

Nice to actually read this - there IS a moral angle to BTL, in the current market and those who prefer to view it otherwise are either kidding themselves or amoral, as far as I'm concerned (or even immoral in the case of a few landlords one hears of...).

When I was poor I went to the shops for milk and bread to feed my children. I was short of a few pence so the assistant in the big store told me " sorry if you don't have the money you don't get the goods". My children went hungry.

I am now a Landlord and have been for many years. I provide good quality homes to families........and some !!!!!! who knows nothing about me comes on and calls me amoral/immoral.
There is NO moral angle its simply a business the same as the store. ;-)

carolt

hearts wrote: »

When I was poor I went to the shops for milk and bread to feed my children. I was short of a few pence so the assistant in the big store told me " sorry if you don't have the money you don't get the goods". My children went hungry.

I am now a Landlord and have been for many years. I provide good quality homes to families........and some !!!!!! who knows nothing about me comes on and calls me amoral/immoral.
There is NO moral angle its simply a business the same as the store. ;-)

You could have placed yourself in the 'kidding yourself' category - the only one whose called you amoral/immoral is you. Sore point, is it? Well, it's your conscience....

But you shouldn't call yourself rude names....

hearts

"Nice to actually read this - there IS a moral angle to BTL, in the current market and those who prefer to view it otherwise are either kidding themselves or amoral, as far as I'm concerned"

My dear fellow. Read again what you wrote. QUOTE. "There IS a moral angle to BTL"
I was wrong in as much as there should be a moral angle to all business dealings. Be honest, truthful and fair in all business dealings. Do your best to do the best you can. Is my angle.
You and others on here somehow think that dealing in property is separate from any other type of comercial endevour. Why is this?
My problem with your post is, you seem to imply that just by being involved in this type of business makes someone immoral/amoral.
I apologise for being rude in my previous post ;-)

ashm1

Dragons Den

I'm out!

carolt

Thanks for the apology!

I'm not suggesting that you or the vast majority of landlords are amoral/immoral but I do think that there is a certain amount of avoiding self-examination too closely among BTL landlords. It was actually the OP, not me, who brought up the moral angle originally:

'the moral part of me thinks house prices are obscene if young couples can't reasonably afford a starter home so I shouldn't be trying to make money out of it'

That's it, in a nutshell; there's nothing wrong in providing reasonable quality rented accommodation for young professionals, DSS etc who prefer not to buy or wouldn't be able to buy under any circumstances. On the contrary, it is providing a useful service. Where it has become more problematic recently is where BTL landlords have benefitted from tax incentives not available to those buying as owner occupiers. The market has been ramped in favour of those with existing equity/properties buying more, thus preventing those who just want one place for themselves (and who in a 'normal' ie not 'fixed' market, would be able to do that) to buy one. If the UK rental market offered security to tenants, as it does in Europe for example, and used to do in this country, with reasonable rents/security of tenure I would have far less problem with an expanded rental sector, but as that is not the case, I do feel that depriving (largely) young people of security of tenure (and as this forum demonstrates, preventing young people from settling down and having children, for example, or forcing families with children to live in unsuitable, insanitary, cramped conditions with no security of tenure) is a moral issue. Whilst owning your own home is not a basic human right (I don't think, though some would disagree with me), having a secure roof over your head is. In England, living in a tent or outside in all weathers is not an option!

Also, as we know from many posts here, many landlords treat their tenants in a way they would not be happy to be treated, stealing deposits, invading privacy, not doing repairs at all or to standard etc. Whilst I appreciate many tenants also treat landlords' property in a way they would not treat their own home, the difference is that landlords choose to take that risk, whereas (most) tenants have no choice whether to buy in the current market.

This is an issue that has been debated at length on other threads with far greater skill than I have just done, but if you want to debate it further, I'll try and explain better what I mean, or possibly some other kind soul will explain further (sorry - I'm very tired - see time of my post last night...).

Please don't take it as a personal attack - I think it's the system that is at fault rather than individuals; but that said, not all individuals choose to exploit the system....