PIP Tribunal and DWP response (confused!)

CakeCrusader

Alice_Holt wrote: »

And the stress would (presumably) worsen your son's condition.

Put this on the submission. Explain the condition will not improve (per calcotti) nor or his coping mechanisms and that if exposed to this again your son would struggle to cope, it would worsen his condition, etc and ask for a long award reflecting the nature of the condition.


"can now use the microwave to cook a frozen pizza if told how long to cook it for."
Emphasis this bit (rather than use of a microwave) as this indicates 1e is appropriate rather than 1c

"1. Preparing food.
a. Can prepare and cook a simple meal unaided. 0 points.
b. Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 2 points.
c. Cannot cook a simple meal using a conventional cooker but is able to do so using a microwave. points. 2 points
d. Needs prompting to be able to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 2 points.
e. Needs supervision or assistance to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 4 points."

I went through every single section with a toothcomb when I did the mandatory reconsideration and wrote everything down exactly like this, and they ignored every single thing. This is why it won't take me too long to write a letter repudiating the bundle for the tribunal, I've already written it.

Alice_Holt

TBH I'd (probably) be aiming at a submission detailing why an enhanced DL award is appropriate [on the basis of your posts].

1e 4 points per above;

4. Washing and bathing.
c. Needs supervision or prompting to be able to wash or bathe. 2 points.

9. Engaging with other people face to face.
c. Needs social support to be able to engage with other people. 4 points.
(You are his appointee, you attended the assessment with him, etc,etc)

10. Making budgeting decisions.
b. Needs prompting or assistance to be able to make complex budgeting decisions. 2 points.
(Do you as his appointee manage his finances?)

And there are likely to be other activities he struggles with -
Prompting to dress?
Prompting to take medication?
Prompting to take nutrition (possibly ???)

And certainly standard mobility (at the least):
"has absolutely zero ability to plan a route"
1. Planning and following journeys.
d. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points.

Alice_Holt

CakeCrusader wrote: »

I went through every single section with a toothcomb when I did the mandatory reconsideration and wrote everything down exactly like this, and they ignored every single thing. This is why it won't take me too long to write a letter repudiating the bundle for the tribunal, I've already written it.

Good.

Shows how poor the MR system is, though.

Any family members / carers / family friends who will write a letter confirming the help your son needs ?
Which can be included with the statement as extra evidence.

CakeCrusader

Alice_Holt wrote: »

TBH I'd (probably) be aiming at a submission detailing why an enhanced DL award is appropriate [on the basis of your posts].

1e 4 points per above;

4. Washing and bathing.
c. Needs supervision or prompting to be able to wash or bathe. 2 points. Yup!! Doesn't like how the water feels and it makes their nose run for some reason (think it's stress induced).

9. Engaging with other people face to face.
c. Needs social support to be able to engage with other people. 4 points.
(You are his appointee, you attended the assessment with him, etc,etc) Doesn't tend to leave the house unless I go too. Falls and tires easily anyway.

10. Making budgeting decisions.
b. Needs prompting or assistance to be able to make complex budgeting decisions. 2 points.
(Do you as his appointee manage his finances?) No, kido manages their own cash, and will spend £120 on a picture for a friend they've never met. The assessor laughed when they tried to explain this as they have an A* in maths. Knowing how to calculate pi isn't quite the same.

And there are likely to be other activities he struggles with -
Prompting to dress? Won't get dressed unless told to.
Prompting to take medication? Doesn't remember to take them so I have to sort this.
Prompting to take nutrition (possibly ???) OK here, knows when they are hungry/thirsty.

And certainly standard mobility (at the least):
"has absolutely zero ability to plan a route"
1. Planning and following journeys.
d. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points.

I took them to school and collected them every day until the day they left, when I couldn't it was constant text contact as they couldn't remember where they were going. Years of the same route and they had no idea.

Spoonie_Turtle

Re: budgeting, do they need help to make appropriate decisions? (Whether they currently have or accept help is essentially irrelevant, it's about what they *need*.)

Mobility, you might be looking at descriptor f, Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid - 12 points.

Alice_Holt

9. Engaging with other people face to face.
c. Needs social support to be able to engage with other people. 4 points.
(You are his appointee, you attended the assessment with him, etc,etc)

Doesn't tend to leave the house unless I go too. Falls and tires easily anyway.

That's more to do with the mobility descriptor - (Which by your comments would be enhanced if he can't reliably do an unfamiliar journey alone).

For social engagement, it's face to face engagement, establishing meaningful communication, and building relationships.
Do you go to the GP with him (for instance).
Face to face support doesn’t mean that it has to be happening at the exact time of the face to face encounter. It could include support before or after the encounter.
The Benefits and Work guides are good on this (and may be worth the c.£20 membership cost).
Reliability is hugely important in PIP - repeatedly (for instance). Does he gets periods during the day when especially stressed and social engagement becomes particularly fraught. Etc,etc.



"No, kido manages their own cash, and will spend £120 on a picture for a friend they've never met."

Then he can't do this to an acceptable standard. Use examples and evidence like this on the submission to show this.
(As his appointee doesn't the PIP money come to you?)



Again the points would add to an enhanced rate for both, rather than just standard DL as awarded before (I presume).

I suspect the DWP evidence bundle will already provide sufficient evidence for a panel to re-award standard DL . (Previous assessments, last PIP2 form, your MR & SSCS1 form etc, etc. With only the latest flawed assessment as an obvious aberration).
So I'd take advantage of this Capita / DWP c@ck up to put the case for enhanced to a tribunal panel who will know their way around PIP descriptors and associated case law much more thoroughly than the HCP assessor (btw what was the HCP qualification? nurse / paramedic ?).

I'd see if having written a draft submission, you can review it with the Law Centre and it goes out to the TS from them with their headers on it as your representative.
That way it is slightly independent and creates a bit of a separation for you at the tribunal.
(I think it better than if you send the submission, and then you attend at tribunal as your son's appointee).
It shouldn't matter but it's likely the Law Centre's stamp on a submission will carry weight with a panel, and, of course, it comes via a different source.

CakeCrusader

Spoonie_Turtle wrote: »

Re: budgeting, do they need help to make appropriate decisions? (Whether they currently have or accept help is essentially irrelevant, it's about what they *need*.)

Mobility, you might be looking at descriptor f, Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid - 12 points.

They need help, it's just that the DWP/Capita don't agree with me. A 20 min assessment and they know better than I do, I just live with the kid, you know. I might mention the time I had to work so they had to get themself home. Texts only work if your kid doesn't fall asleep on the bus, they ended up 6 miles away and had no idea how to get home.

CakeCrusader

@Alice, kido stammers and doesn't say much even if we do go out. We used to go out weekly, now it's once every 6 months. There's just no motivation to do anything.



I told the assessor about the picture. I can't remember if it's in the report, it was ignored anyway. The money used to go to kiddo, I didn't think it was wise then as I ended up paying for everything they needed while they stored it. The assessors were both OTs, the first one seemed more experienced with kids and dyspraxia, the last one just seemed rude.

Spoonie_Turtle

CakeCrusader wrote: »

They need help, it's just that the DWP/Capita don't agree with me. A 20 min assessment and they know better than I do, I just live with the kid, you know. I might mention the time I had to work so they had to get themself home. Texts only work if your kid doesn't fall asleep on the bus, they ended up 6 miles away and had no idea how to get home.

CakeCrusader wrote: »

@Alice, kido stammers and doesn't say much even if we do go out. We used to go out weekly, now it's once every 6 months. There's just no motivation to do anything.

I told the assessor about the picture. I can't remember if it's in the report, it was ignored anyway. The money used to go to kiddo, I didn't think it was wise then as I ended up paying for everything they needed while they stored it. The assessors were both OTs, the first one seemed more experienced with kids and dyspraxia, the last one just seemed rude.

Definitely put all of these areas in for the tribunal (brainfog, words have gone, but I'm sure you get what I mean despite it being very much not the technical term!), even if the original report mentioned nothing of the issues