Refund Sought - Skydiving Voucher

DoaM

Juddermann wrote: »

Ok - let's set aside the BMI complaint. I've also revisited the voucher and email.

Their email states:
The voucher is.... valid for the full cost of a Tandem Skydive booked on any scheduled date up until Easter Monday 22 Apr 19 or towards the cost of any of our courses at face value for 9 months from 30/11/2019 and extensions thereafter for periods of 4 months can be obtained for a fee of £35.00

Well there's your "get out of jail free" card ... they've sold you an expired voucher.

K80_Black

Juddermann wrote: »

If I seek to transfer the benefit of the voucher, how can I assure a recipient of the value? Should I seek additional clarification from the vendor?

I do still believe they have failed to outline cancellation terms under the distance selling part of the CCR, but if the suggestion is that this would not clearly apply here, I'll revisit my options.

Do you have a billing receipt? That's usually your proof of purchase price.

If you try to buy a voucher, it says : Voucher Conditions
Please note that whilst our vouchers are transferable (i.e. the place can be taken by another prior to the commencement of a course) they are not refundable. Once a course has commenced the place is no longer transferable.

How could that be made clearer?

While I'm not sure of the exact regulations, EVERY gift voucher from amazon to zara is non refundable in this manner. Edit : stand corrected, distance stuff applies even with vouchers, apparently. It's not a product I use and regulations have changed since I last looked.

I have clicked through options, and cannot find the bit where it specifies what BMI you need to be between.

Could you provide the link please?

I don’t think their T&Cs are at all clear! If BMI was that important it should have it in the main T&Cs.

The bmi chart is linked in the FAQ - https://skydiveacademy.org.uk/faqs/
It is also linked on the information page about Tandem skydiving. Twice. https://skydiveacademy.org.uk/tandem/

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Juddermann wrote: »

I do still believe they have failed to outline cancellation terms under the distance selling part of the CCR, but if the suggestion is that this would not clearly apply here, I'll revisit my options.

I'm sure you've already read this but just to reference:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/28/made

Limits of application: circumstances excluding cancellation

the supply of accommodation, transport of goods, vehicle rental services, catering or services related to leisure activities, if the contract provides for a specific date or period of performance.

Given the voucher has an open date the specific date doesn't apply to my mind, it would be interesting to understand what "period of performance." means.

If period of performance doesn't apply then you have the right to cancel.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

K80_Black wrote: »

While I'm not sure of the exact regulations, EVERY gift voucher from amazon to zara is non refundable in this manner.

I don't see any exemptions detailed in the link in my last post that would apply to a gift card?

K80_Black

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

I don't see any exemptions detailed in the link in my last post that would apply to a gift card?

Instead of linking to a random piece of legislation and expecting me to read the entire thing to find the part of the same legislation that says it applies to something like 'goods or services' (of which a gift card is neither) - you could just read this handy guide by Which? about gift cards.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/what-are-my-rights-with-gift-vouchers-and-cards

I try to avoid long legal documents I barely understand - especially small parts quoted out of context.

ThumbRemote

K80_Black wrote: »

On the vouchers page you linked, it says 'Tandem participants need to satisfy the criteria laid down in BPA Form 115-A' - as it does multiple other times across the site. The chart on the form clearly shows the normal maximum weights for different heights in both metric and imperial and says at the top, in bold 'You should also check with the parachute training organisation (PTO) for any height-weight restrictions they may have.'

That's pretty clear to me, if you took them to court, I don't think you'd stand a chance.

Sorry, but I disagree entirely.

In the first instance, form 115A does not specify BMI as a medical exclusion. It is not a declaration; it simply says "I understand that ... having a weight greater than that shown for my height ... will render me more prone to injury". The other medical items state "I do not...". The BMI one is stated differently.

Secondly, the line "You should also check with the parachute training organisation". In this case the PTO is the same person they bought the voucher off. Their criteria are listed on the vouchers page and make no mention of BMI or height/weight ratio.

Entries in the FAQ are not part of the terms and conditions. Also note that the BMI table is only listed on the 'tandem' page and not on the actual 'vouchers' page. You cannot hide terms and conditions on random pages dotted around your website. If it's not in the actual T&Cs, it doesn't apply.

Therefore there is no term that covers BMI and if the skydive centre are refusing to allow a jump based on this, they are going well outside their own T&Cs and owe a full refund. Given this, and the numerous other issues unholyangel has mentioned, it would be a straightforward court victory.

Personally I'd try going to the credit card company first and pointing this out, as I suspect they'll agree.

K80_Black

ThumbRemote wrote: »

Sorry, but I disagree entirely.

In the first instance, form 115A does not specify BMI as a medical exclusion. It is not a declaration; it simply says "I understand that ... having a weight greater than that shown for my height ... will render me more prone to injury". The other medical items state "I do not...". The BMI one is stated differently.

Secondly, the line "You should also check with the parachute training organisation". In this case the PTO is the same person they bought the voucher off. Their criteria are listed on the vouchers page and make no mention of BMI or height/weight ratio.

Therefore there is no term that covers BMI and if the skydive centre are refusing to allow a jump based on this, they are going well outside their own T&Cs and owe a full refund. Given this, and the numerous other issues unholyangel has mentioned, it would be a straightforward court victory.

Personally I'd try going to the credit card company first and pointing this out, as I suspect they'll agree.

5a of the terms says you need to pass a physical assessment to jump. The FAQS under health and fitness requirements talks of BMI and includes a chart.

Juddermann

K80_Black wrote: »

While I'm not sure of the exact regulations, EVERY gift voucher from amazon to zara is non refundable in this manner.

Did you check Zara's terms and conditions for voucher refunds?.....:)

Distance selling applies there....in addition to their own terms.
https://static.zara.net/static//pdfs/UK/giftcard-conditions/giftcard-conditions-en_UK-20180312.pdf

K80_Black

Juddermann wrote: »

Did you check Zara's terms and conditions for voucher refunds?.....:)

Distance selling applies there....in addition to their own terms.
https://static.zara.net/static//pdfs/UK/giftcard-conditions/giftcard-conditions-en_UK-20180312.pdf

If you just want to argue and don't want any help, you should have said.

How's your (incredibly short) wife feel about your gift?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

K80_Black wrote: »

Instead of linking to a random piece of legislation

Sorry this is the consumer rights board and any guidance, such as Which, can only stem from the original legislation.

At a glance the link you've provided doesn't appear touch upon buying online and the right to cancel so doesn't seem to provide us with anything of substance.

The rather long article you linked to is on various aspects of gift cards as opposed to a short piece of legislation specifically relating to the cancellation of them which was the point I was addressing.

With regards to being out of context I think your statement is rather misplaced.

K80_Black wrote: »

goods or services' (of which a gift card is neither

OK I'm always happy to be corrected, what are they classed as then?

K80_Black wrote: »

While I'm not sure of the exact regulations, EVERY gift voucher from amazon to zara is non refundable in this manner.

I purchased 3 Amazon Gift Cards before Christmas and they have the option to access the return flow and choose a change of mind return reason.