Tesla News & Discussion

zeupater

1961Nick wrote: »

The main hurdle won't be the mass adoption of EV's, it'll be the ability of the grid to cope with domestic charging. Most properties with off street parking could cope with charging one EV @ 7.2 kW/h, but two or more EV's plus the domestic load is running close to 80/100 amps. These sort of loads would ideally be more suitable for a 415v 3 phase supply which is going to be expensive.

Smart charging might offer some leeway during the transition from ICE.

Hi

Maybe if both cars are covering ~200miles/day everyday (~150k miles/year total) and therefore need charging overnight every night, but for most two (+) car households this isn't the case ... the average EV in a decade's time should only need charging weekly or even fortnightly therefore the 'need' to always charge in parallel using two home chargers as opposed to sequentially using one is likely pretty rare, in which case a real need for a costly three phase supply installation is questionable ...

For the very few that this rare high mileage multi-vehicle condition would apply to, well they're likely to be running some form of business vehicles and regularly travelling distances which necessitate on-route charging at 50kW to 150kW(+), so again this should open up windows for charging at home.

As you mention, there's always the likelihood for smart-enabled charging equipment running pre-defined priority sequential charging of multiple vehicles from a single charge point if that's deemed necessary by those that can't manage to do the same manually using a little bit of grey-matter, but then again, it's their money & their choice!!

HTH
Z

michaels

Tesla cybertruck with its sledge hammer proof stainless steel - I can't see this meeting the pedestrian crash saftey regs - are there different regs because it is a 'light truck; rather than a passenger car?

Martyn1981

I have almost zero understanding of stocks and shares, but I'm starting to wonder if we might be seeing 'the short squeeze' as Tesla races towards $600, up from $180 last June.

1961Nick

Martyn1981 wrote: »

The average draw, based on 30m vehicles (8,000 miles / 2,000kWh pa) and 20m homes is ~340W or 680W if we assume 8pm to 8am.

I'd suggest that most homes wouldn't need to charge two BEV's at the same, though of course it will arise, but for average daily driving I've found a 2.2kW granny charge is fine, so two (or three of them), ideally on different rings would be fine. Plus of combinations of 7kW plus a granny charge.

Of course, not all BEV's will be charged at home, or at night, but that would make the issue you raise easier, not harder.

It's not going to be the 'average users' that causes a problem, it's the high milers that need a lot of energy in a short period of time. These vehicles will be using 7.2 kWh chargers timed to make best use of off peak tariffs. The generators may have enough power, but will the distribution network be able to cope with EV hotspots?

Martyn1981

1961Nick wrote: »

It's not going to be the 'average users' that causes a problem, it's the high milers that need a lot of energy in a short period of time. These vehicles will be using 7.2 kWh chargers timed to make best use of off peak tariffs. The generators may have enough power, but will the distribution network be able to cope with EV hotspots?

Hard to be certain, but averages should play out. You might have a hot spot of power showers in the morning, but I haven't heard concerns about those, and they could be expected to be used most days, whereas an average BEV'er would use a 7kW charger infrequently, perhaps once a week.

So back to that +340/680W draw.

Not dismissing that issues could arise, just not convinced that it's a big problem, and some simple smart charging interaction that 'takes turns' or 'reduces output' based on locality would resolve the issue.

GreatApe

1961Nick wrote: »

The main hurdle won't be the mass adoption of EV's, it'll be the ability of the grid to cope with domestic charging. Most properties with off street parking could cope with charging one EV @ 7.2 kW/h, but two or more EV's plus the domestic load is running close to 80/100 amps. These sort of loads would ideally be more suitable for a 415v 3 phase supply which is going to be expensive.

Smart charging might offer some leeway during the transition from ICE.

This isn't a valid concern as most households will have absolutely no problem in charging an EV or two. In fact for most households a 'free' 2.5KW three pin plug charging setup would be absolutely fine as most cars are at home at least 10h a day that's enough to charge up 100+ miles and very few people do >100 miles a day every day.

In the distant future with charging points everywhere that will mean cars can be plugged into the grid 22h a day which means even granny plug speeds is fine to go from empty to full daily

GreatApe

Put option $490 for 19th February
$14.87 to buy X 400 shares = $5,948 max loss
Anything below $475/share would be $400 profit per dollar below that sum

Tempting to gamble....

GreatApe

1961Nick wrote: »

It's not going to be the 'average users' that causes a problem, it's the high milers that need a lot of energy in a short period of time. These vehicles will be using 7.2 kWh chargers timed to make best use of off peak tariffs. The generators may have enough power, but will the distribution network be able to cope with EV hotspots?

The grid can cope for sure but the economy tarriffs as they stand can't cope

For instance the octopus go tarriff with 5p between 00:30 - 04:30 couldn't cope with 500,000+ EV customers

Instead I think we will see groups of low rate electricity
So you might get a low price rate from midnight to 4 am I might get one from 1am to 5am and so on so all the chargers don't come in at once.

This way setting aside 10PM to about 6AM with phased in start times you'd be okay to charge at least 10+ million EVs which is a long way away

The phases in charging can be a method to be able to charge 30+ million EVs but the times would be allocated around 20h of the non peak demand periods. I suspect the 5p rate will go and the different between normal and low peak times will narrow. Overall most Likely there will be a flat rate for 20h around 15p a unit and maybe double that for the peak 4h per day.

I wouldn't bet on 5p electricity being around when millions of EVs are deployed

GreatApe

almillar wrote: »

That's 5 miles of range! What's the point?!

The point of a hybrid is they get a real world 63mpg on petrol

The energy otherwise wasted in breaking is saved to do some electric miles mostly the slow urban miles are replaced. Overall it's great tech if every car was hybrid you have 25-30% lower emmissions

Related to your other thread on discharge rate, you'll not be getting 50hp out of 1.5kWh of battery.

I think hybrid battery chemistry is geared to high power per kWh
Anyway you don't need huge power in hybrids because their battery and electric motor are mostly used for the slow 0-30 which doesn't need a huge amount of power

And it isn't really 'range' as these are self charged each time you would break
Think of hybrid tech as improving fuel economy from circa 45mpg to 65mpg
Or more accurately almost no improvement on the motorway
But going from ~30 to over 60 in urban driving

Depending on the type of driving you do, if it's almost all urban, you'll almost half your emmissions
The Prius is probably the most popular taxi for a reason
Half the urban fuel useage probably half the wear and tear too

So you want 40, 1kWh hybrids, instead of 1, 40kWh Leaf?

Sure if you're going to sell 40 cars it's better to sell 40 hybrids rather than 1 leaf and 39 ICE

GreatApe

That's 5 miles of range! What's the point?!

As already mentioned hybrids are to increase urban efficiency
With an ICE at perhaps 20mpg urban and 60mpg motorway becoming perhaps 60mpg urban 60mpg motorway

That's the first step to go to full hybrids for all vehicles
Not only does it save fuel it reduces pollution big time in urban areas where it matters more

The next step is to go to plug in hybrids
A plug in hybrid with just 40 miles (10KWh) can cover 90-99% of annual mileage on electricity
Put slow 2.5KW chargers everywhere (cheap) and make them free for the first 1,000 units
This way you electrify almost all miles without the need for full EVs

For those that say hybrids have two lots of costs
Not quite Because you can go from a 160HP petrol engine to a
80HP electric + 50HP petrol setup so the petrol side can be smaller/cheaper/lighter than a pure ICE
And the electric side is significantly lighter as you only use 10KWh of batteries rather than 50KWh

That's the logical progression
And probably how it will play out
Until and assuming BEV powertrains get significantly cheaper
Which we know so far BEVs haven't gotten cheaper
Tesla model 3 released 2.5 years ago....is it cheaper today? No