neighbour says we have to remove our gate

deltech

Sorry if this is in the wrong section, but it was the closest match I could find........


We own a semi-detached property in the West Midlands.

Our neighbour has a detached property.

We have a side path, wholly on our property, accessing the back door and back garden.

The side path has our lounge and dining rooms on one side, and the neighbour's bedrooms on the other side, approximately 1m apart.

There are no windows on either parties walls along our side path.

Our neighbour has his own side path on the other side of his property, between his property and his other neighbour.

Our side path has a gate, which is contained within a “3-sided” wooden frame (left piece, right piece, top piece), similar to a football goal.

One side piece is attached to our dining room wall.

One side piece is attached to the neighbour’'s bedroom wall.

Neither wall has any windows.

We purchased this property in September 2017.

The neighbour purchased his property in June 2014.

The gate has been in situ since AT LEAST June 2009 (earliest photograph available on Google maps website).

The neighbour has now demanded that the gate be removed because it is attached to his bedroom wall.

Given the fact that this gate has been in situ for 10½ years, AND BEFORE the neighbour purchased his property, AND ALSO the neighbour never insisted (to our knowledge) on the previous owners of our property to remove it, do we have to comply with his demand?

grumbler

I don't think that the history is of any importance. It's his wall and you don't have any rights just because this lasted for years.



It's an easy job to replace it with a wooden or concrete post dug into the ground.

Ozzuk

Can you prove permission was granted? Probably not so IMO you don't have a leg to stand on - your neighbour could be rightly concerned that it is causing damage to the brickwork. Also, how sure are you that it is fully on your land - boundary might not be right up to the wall of the house if there are eaves for instance.

I have the same situation at my house, I let it go but if it comes up as an issue when selling I'll have to insist my neighbour removes their gate.

Ant555

deltech wrote: »

The neighbour has now demanded that the gate be removed because it is attached to his bedroom wall.

As already suggested, its his wall.
It may be semantics but you dont actually have to remove the gate, just not have any screws or bolts attached into his wall.

It could be that in the wind, the gate now rattles and is disturbing his sleep as its directly attached to his bedroom wall - you may not notice this in your living room with the TV on etc.

FreeBear

I'm going to take a different viewpoint here. As the wall (probably) forms the boundary, it could/would fall under the party wall act. The gate and post appears to predate either sides ownership, so permission may well have been granted before 2009 and passed on to subsequent owners. After ten years or more, it would be difficult to prove permission was not granted, and with the amount of time passed, implied rights could be inferred.

Time to read the property deeds, including any covenants. Then consult a solicitor with experience of property disputes. A cheaper option would indeed be to dig a hole and fit a free standing concrete post. But because of the foundations, there will be a 4-6" gap between the post and wall - Probably need a new gate unless the old one can be trimmed down.

General_Grant

FreeBear wrote: »

I'm going to take a different viewpoint here. As the wall (probably) forms the boundary, it could/would fall under the party wall act. The gate and post appears to predate either sides ownership, so permission may well have been granted before 2009 and passed on to subsequent owners. After ten years or more, it would be difficult to prove permission was not granted, and with the amount of time passed, implied rights could be inferred.

Time to read the property deeds, including any covenants. Then consult a solicitor with experience of property disputes. A cheaper option would indeed be to dig a hole and fit a free standing concrete post. But because of the foundations, there will be a 4-6" gap between the post and wall - Probably need a new gate unless the old one can be trimmed down.

I don't see the need to reduce the size of the gate. If it is set at an angle, with the new post further into the OP's property but with insufficient space for someone to squeeze in between it and the neighbour's wall, it would offer the same security as now.

TheCyclingProgrammer

The neighbour cannot stop you from having a gate on your property but you have no right to attach things to their wall without their permission.

Regardless of whether permission was agreed between previous owners (can you even prove this?) that doesn’t mean future owners have to abide by that agreement unless there was some kind of formal agreement written into the deeds.

It does seem a bit strange and petty of the neighbour to demand its removal after such a long time. Have you had a falling out with them? Have you ever got on with them?

You have two choices that I can see:

1. Ignore them. They may not do anything. They may attempt to remove the offending fixings from their property. They would be idiots to try and take legal action but it’s likely to antagonise them and lead to further issues.

2. Remove the fixings and change the post to one that is freestanding on your own property (is the boundary reasonably clear and agreed upon between you and your neighbour?). You may need to reduce the width of the gate.

If you cannot come to an amicable agreement I would go with option 2 but if the neighbour is being funny about this I wouldn’t be surprised if their next objection is about the precise location of the boundary. If that happens I would strongly advise you ignore them from then on - don’t even entertain a boundary dispute.

Doozergirl

FreeBear wrote: »

I'm going to take a different viewpoint here. As the wall (probably) forms the boundary, it could/would fall under the party wall act. The gate and post appears to predate either sides ownership, so permission may well have been granted before 2009 and passed on to subsequent owners. After ten years or more, it would be difficult to prove permission was not granted, and with the amount of time passed, implied rights could be inferred.

Time to read the property deeds, including any covenants. Then consult a solicitor with experience of property disputes. A cheaper option would indeed be to dig a hole and fit a free standing concrete post. But because of the foundations, there will be a 4-6" gap between the post and wall - Probably need a new gate unless the old one can be trimmed down.

....or they could just do as the neighbour asked.

I'm sure you understand as well as I do that anything attached to wall above the DPC is liable to cause damp. I have seen dry rot travel through a house as a result of slow water ingress from a fence post nailed into a living room wall!

Aside from just being a good neighbour, the houses are both detached and I don't believe that the party wall act would apply at all. The boundary will end with the neighbour's wall and it would be difficult to prove otherwise.

The cost of a bit of jiggery pokery and a fence post concreted into the ground near to the neighbour's house will be less than the cost of an hour of a solicitor.

beaker141

How does the roofline look above the fence post. I assume there is some form of overhang from the wall, even just say 10cm of the ridge - which I think implies that is the boundary line and not the wall.

Otherwise, their roof would be over your boundary.

grumbler

FreeBear wrote: »

But because of the foundations, there will be a 4-6" gap between the post and wall - Probably need a new gate unless the old one can be trimmed down.

Foundation is likely to be pretty deep under the surface. And the post doesn't bear much load - there is no need for a very deep hole.

G_M

I suspect there's another side to the story. Why is the neighbour suddenly raising this? Either the gate is actually causing a problem ( eg as suggested, breaches dpc and causes damp), or it's 'vengence' for some other perceived problem......


I'd suggest tea and cake, but whichever of those two reasons it is, that probably won't work.


* Party Wall Act? I don't see how that applies.
* Consent orginally granted? Unlikely to have been in perpetuity - more likely granted to the then owner by the then owner and not applicable to subsequent owners. And even if it were, it's probably a licence that can be withdrawn at will.


Disconnect gate from neighbour's wall; make good any damage to wall; install a post next to neighbour's wall on your land; Fix gate to post.