Scammed vie eBay and PayPal

richthegill

Good Morning,
I wondered if anyone can give me some advice on the below.
the facts are as below
05-11-19 Mobile phone sold on eBay for £648
12-11-19 Buyer opened a case claiming damage.Â* Seller responded asking for further information – None received
25-11-19 Buyer escalated case to a claim - £648 debited from seller PayPal account. Seller contacted PayPal via telephone and was advised by a PayPal advisor that the buyer would have to supply a legal 3rd party report from Samsung showing the nature of the faults.
06-12-19 PayPal find in buyers favour – advise buyer to return the item with a tracking reference and proof postage before funds will be released. PayPal advise a 3rd party report was received but not from Samsung.
PayPal advisor tells seller that full tracking reference showing the tracking number and address must be sent by the buyer to PayPal to verify item has been returned
12-12-19 Buyer supplies tracking reference SE085203616GB which shows the item delivered on 10-12-19 and signed for by ‘Mandy’. PayPal accept this and release funds.Â* The item was NOT returned the return address supplied to the buyer by PayPal and Royal Mail has confirmed the postcode of the return address does NOT match the postcode linked to the tracking reference and advised to speak with the buyer for resolution. Royal Mail will not confirm the address to where the item was sent.
Seller sent 4 messages to the buyer using the eBay account to confirm which address the item was sent to, and no response was received.
13-12-19 buyer contacts PayPal who advise that they will open an appeal and the buyer has to supply a proof of postage
17-12-19 PayPal close the case as a response was not received within the timeframe this was found for the buyer (!!)
19-12-19 seller contacts PayPal via telephone and speaks to ‘Darragh’ who again advised they will reopen the case, request proof of postage and contact me via telephone on the 27th December with an update.
30-12-19 PayPal again close the case – Seller contacts PayPal via telephone asking to speak to ‘Darragh’ advised that they could not transfer me but an internal email would be sent asking ‘Darragh’ to contact me
There is proof both on PayPal messenger and in recorded telephone conversations that PayPal has NOT received proof of postage despite 3 requests , and has NOT received a genuine fault report from Samsung from the buyer. This has left the seller down by £648 and also without the item that was sold. PayPal has refused to share a copy of the report, and a PayPal advisor confirmed to the seller that proof of postage was not received.
Seller has provided proof the buyer did not return the item to the seller, therefore PayPal should NOT have refunded the funds back to the buyer.
A complaint has been lodged with the Financial Ombudsman Service
A complaint has been raised with Action Fraud
It is my view PayPal has facilitated this fraud, as I've contacted eBay before the item was sent advising there was a concern. (the name of the PayPal account holder didn't match the deliver too name, and the address was to a storage locker) I had also advised PayPal on numerous occasions that I believe a fraud is being perpetrated but PayPal has at no point taken this on board or taken action to protect me

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
thanks in advance.

theonlywayisup

That is very difficult to read and I am not sure if this was a case opened on ebay or Paypal? I think it is Paypal.

You have lost the case and an appeal has not been opened or successful (am not sure which).

If you cannot convince Paypal to open an appeal and not close it until proof of posting / delivery can be shown to be made to the correct address then you will get nowhere else with PayPal.

It doesn't look like you have the name and address of the buyer therefore any legal route is going to be problematic.

As an aside there is no requirement for Paypal to ask the buyer to supply a fault report - Paypal adjudicate their own cases and will make their decision (to find for the buyer) based on the information in the case.

TripleH

If I read properly, have you put pressure on paypal to clarify address the item was sent to?
Is this the same prime address connected to your paypal account? I don't believe you are covered if you asked for items to be returned to a different address on paypal.
Try logging a dispute with Ebay as well. Whilst they are no longer the same as paypal it is worth a punt?

theonlywayisup

TripleH wrote: »

Try logging a dispute with Ebay as well. Whilst they are no longer the same as paypal it is worth a punt?

I am guessing the OP is the seller, although the post is hard to understand as it is written in the third party in parts.

If they are, they aren't able to log a dispute with ebay or Paypal. They can only react to a case opened and appeal if it doesn't go in their favour.

richthegill

theonlywayisup wrote: »

I am guessing the OP is the seller, although the post is hard to understand as it is written in the third party in parts.

If they are, they aren't able to log a dispute with ebay or Paypal. They can only react to a case opened and appeal if it doesn't go in their favour.

I am the seller, yes, apologies about the post above.
I didn't appeal the decision to refund the buyer, if they don't want it then so be it.
the problem I have is the seller never returned the phone to me.
PayPal told me on numerous occasions, they will only return the money to the buyer once they have proved the item has been returned to me at the address registered on Paypal, and they will require a proof of postage showing the tracking number and my address as well as the weights and dims to confirm what was sent.

The buyer gave PayPal a tracking number, shown as delivered and signed for from my local sorting office. However it was not delivered to my address, and Royal Mail has confirmed the delivery address linked to that tracking reference does not match my address. (of course GDPR prevents them telling me the address they delivered it to)
I spoke with PayPal on numerous occasions, and they confirmed they have NOT received a proof of postage. 3 times they have reopened the case and contacted the buyer asking for it.
They have still not received it (confirmed by a PP advisor) however they have now closed the case saying that the tracking number is sufficient as it shows it was delivered from my local sorting office. Delivered to where god only knows.

As an aside, eBay advised me that any decision PayPal make over rides any decision eBay make.

Takmon

richthegill wrote: »

I am the seller, yes, apologies about the post above.
I didn't appeal the decision to refund the buyer, if they don't want it then so be it.

I don't understand why you would not appeal the decision if the phone was not damaged as the seller claimed it was. Now it looks like you misrepresented the goods on eBay and sent them a damaged phone....

lindens

you may want to also post this on the Ebay board as there are some on there who are knowledgeable on the ebay and paypal processes and their relationship.

richthegill

Takmon wrote: »

I don't understand why you would not appeal the decision if the phone was not damaged as the seller claimed it was. Now it looks like you misrepresented the goods on eBay and sent them a damaged phone....

I did appeal the decision, but PayPal found for the buyer. Once that happened it was never going to be overturned.
phone was under warranty anyway so IF it was faulty I would have claimed a repair under warranty. (i know for a fact it wasn't)

richthegill

lindens wrote: »

you may want to also post this on the Ebay board as there are some on there who are knowledgeable on the ebay and paypal processes and their relationship.

thanks, there are so many forums I didn't see that one!! have posted it there.

theonlywayisup

richthegill wrote: »

I am the seller, yes, apologies about the post above.
I didn't appeal the decision to refund the buyer, if they don't want it then so be it.
the problem I have is the seller never returned the phone to me.
PayPal told me on numerous occasions, they will only return the money to the buyer once they have proved the item has been returned to me at the address registered on Paypal, and they will require a proof of postage showing the tracking number and my address as well as the weights and dims to confirm what was sent.

The buyer gave PayPal a tracking number, shown as delivered and signed for from my local sorting office. However it was not delivered to my address, and Royal Mail has confirmed the delivery address linked to that tracking reference does not match my address. (of course GDPR prevents them telling me the address they delivered it to)
I spoke with PayPal on numerous occasions, and they confirmed they have NOT received a proof of postage. 3 times they have reopened the case and contacted the buyer asking for it.
They have still not received it (confirmed by a PP advisor) however they have now closed the case saying that the tracking number is sufficient as it shows it was delivered from my local sorting office. Delivered to where god only knows.

As an aside, eBay advised me that any decision PayPal make over rides any decision eBay make.

As the item was showing as delivered by your local sorting office then you would lose an appeal - what you need for an appeal is evidence that the delivery address was incorrect. Do you have anything from RM that you can use - even their email to you that the item wasn't delivered to your address but they cannot disclose the delivery address.

richthegill

theonlywayisup wrote: »

As the item was showing as delivered by your local sorting office then you would lose an appeal - what you need for an appeal is evidence that the delivery address was incorrect. Do you have anything from RM that you can use - even their email to you that the item wasn't delivered to your address but they cannot disclose the delivery address.

I have sent them proof, twice that RM has confirmed the address linked to the tracking reference doesn't match my address.