Parking on the white line...

MrsChapp

Hi all,

Really sorry to start my own post but I’ve been through the forum and can’t see anything similar, so wondered if anyone could help. So, my story is:

• Oct 2018 parked in a car park and bought a ticket

• Left the car park the next day (nothing attached to the windscreen)

• A month later I had a ‘Parking Charge – Notice to Keeper’ from NE Parking, saying that the car was not parked correctly in the bay, and as I had not paid in the allotted time the chargee had risen to £100

• I rung NE parking advising that there was no ticket, and so I was unaware of the parking charge. They provided photos showing it stuck to my windscreen, along with a picture of my car touching the white line of the space. I’ve no idea what happened to the original ticket

• I replied their letter by email, appealing the ticket, as I was on the white line, not over it, and there was no loss of income as the picture clearly shows a car in the space next to me. The problem here is I can’t remember what I actually wrote as I sent it from my works email and have since moved companies. I have today applied for a SAR to check, but can imagine I would have admitted driving the car – rookie mistake!!

• 2 weeks later I received a final demand for payment from NE Parking, still asking for £100, I rung and asked about my appeal and they advised they did not look at it as I’d missed the period I could appeal in, although I reminded them that I didn’t know about the ticket until after the appeal window closed as there was nothing on my windscreen. They confirmed that they would not look at my appeal.

• 3 weeks after this letter I received my first from a debt collection agency asking for £160, and ignored it. I then received another 5 demands from 2 debt collectors (DRP and Zenith) over the next 2 months, asking for £144 (once) and £160 (4 times). I continued to ignore these.

I assumed that was the end of it, but today (9 months after the last correspondence from a debt collector) I’ve received a “Letter Before Claim” from Gladstones. They have advised that the will commence legal action if I don’t pay, or provide a valid reason for non payment. If I believe I have a valid reason for non payment they say I am able to reply pursuant to Paragraph 4 of the Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims under the Civil Procedure Rules 1998.

I’ve read through various threads but wondered if anyone had a template for my response to Gladstones. I think my main argument is that there was no loss of income, as I did not prevent the space next to me from being used, as shown by their pictures.

Is it also possible to use the size of the spaces as a defence? I’ve looked on Google Maps and the spaces are significantly smaller than the car park next door, is there a minimum size they need to be? Otherwise they will be fining everyone. I’ll happily drive the 100 mile back to the space to measure it if I need to prove this.

Thanks in advance, I know you get tonnes of these through!
Mrs C

Umkomaas

Let's see the photo(s) of the car touching the white line. Redact the VRM.

NEWBIES - HOW TO UPLOAD LINKS TO PHOTOS/SCANS TO MSE

To upload a photo/scan link, you first need to host it on a free photo hosting site (like Dropbox or Imgur), copy the URL, paste it here, but change the http to hxxp and we'll do the conversion. Newbies can't directly upload links to photos/scans until they've a few posts under their belt.

Please do not use TinyPic or PhotoBucket as they drop all sorts of gratuitous and unsolicited dross on computer screens when their links are opened.

Or, read this advisory post:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=72903720&postcount=7115

Redx

The Barry Beavis case at the Supreme Court a few years ago killed off your no loss argument

At this stage you are awaiting a court claim , so follow the instructions in the Newbies FAQ sticky thread , SAR to the PPC to their DPO , denial of the alleged debt to Gladstone's and to place the matter on hold whilst you seek debt management counselling (which they will reject)

Then read the example defences in the newbies thread , plus other ongoing and concluded court case threads on here , from this year only , reading the IPC member ones where Gladstone's were involved

The_Deep

is there a minimum size they need to be? Otherwise they will be fining everyone.

No, but read some of these

https://www.bing.com/search?q=parking+spaces+width&form=IENTNB&pc=EUPP_ACTE&mkt=en-gb&httpsmsn=1&msnews=1&refig=9e8955085403465cebcca73d39d61558&sp=1&qs=BT&pq=parking+spIt

Also, it is not a fine, please read the stickies.

Parking on a line is considered by many judges to be a trifling matter, please read this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT][/FONT]

The_Slithy_Tove

MrsChapp wrote: »

They provided photos showing it stuck to my windscreen, along with a picture of my car touching the white line of the space. I’ve no idea what happened to the original ticket

That's easy. They took the ticket off after photographing it. It's a favourite ploy these companies use, and just goes to show what disreputable scammers they all are.

Umkomaas

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

That's easy. They took the ticket off after photographing it. It's a favourite ploy these companies use, and just goes to show what disreputable scammers they all are.

@OP - colloquially known around these parts as 'ghost ticketing'. Look it up on Google. It's prevalent.

MrsChapp

Umkomaas wrote: »

Let's see the photo(s) of the car touching the white line. Redact the VRM.

Unfortunately i can't at the minute as I lost their email response when i moved jobs. Already had an initial response to the SAR I sent (asking for ID) so hopefully the should send it through in the next few days.

legal_magpie

There are two issues. First, if the car was slightly on the white line, this is classed as "de minimis" and will probably be chucked out by the judge. The second issue is the "ghost" ticket. It is essential that you mention this in your defence to make it clear that this is a real issue. It is unlikely that they will put in a statement from the warden, as opposed to someone from their office, and even less likely that the warden will be called to give live evidence.

Coupon-mad

There is no 'warden' working for PPCs, legal magpie. Only scammers.