Keep Being Overpaid Despite Leaving in September

etherealinsanity

Hi everyone,

This is my first post on this website so thank you in advance to anyone who responds!

I graduated from university earlier this year and began a 6 week internship with a Civil Service department in London. While I was there, my contract was extended by a further 2 weeks so that I eventually left on 20th September. Since leaving, the department has continued to pay me for the months of October and November, and I strongly suspect that I will be paid again in December. I've told them that I'm happy to pay back all of the money (and have kept it in a savings account) but have been informed that repayments can't be processed until the leaving date has been confirmed. I am due to start another more local, Civil Service job in January and think this might cause problems with setting up accounts in my new department and also with HMRC and tax purposes.

I have repeatedly contacted the HR team handling overpayments only to be continually redirected to my former manager, who the HR team have said needs to confirm that I've left in order for them to register the payments as 'overpayments'. When I have emailed my manager, she says she has already done this and that the HR team have gotten confused about the extension date. The HR team have also told me that they are not personally responsible for chasing up these things and that it is my responsibility to get my manager to re-record my original leaving date.

I've been going back and forth for months now and don't know what to do anymore, so would appreciate any help or advice!

UPDATE: I didn't receive a December payment in my bank account, but called HMRC who informed me that the department were claiming a December payment had been processed. I emailed my manager again and was told that HR had made an immediate order on 20th December to stop any further payments from entering my account, but that the contract itself hadn't been ended (and HMRC hadn't been informed).

ACAS have said they can't help me as they only deal with the illegality of underpayments, not overpayments. I've also been in contact with HMRC again, who have ended the 'live job' status of the internship as of December 2019, which is still false but will at least stop an emergency tax rate being applied to my any new employment. They've also said they'll be launching an investigation as my old department is misleading HMRC with false payments that were never intended to enter my bank account, and potentially breaking laws. I need to send HMRC bank statements and emails as proof of this, and the investigation could take over a month, but I feel a bit better knowing that at least some progress is being made as my old department still isn't showing any urgency!

FURTHER UPDATE: HR have now closed my contract but have not, and have no intention of, informing HMRC of what has happened. They're now also in the process of trying to recover the overpayments made, bizarrely including for December (even though I never received a December payment because they blocked it from entering my account??).

I'm going to be sending 3 months worth of emails and bank statements to HMRC tomorrow morning and will wait to see what they say before taking any further action.

getmore4less

Give up.

Don't spend the money they will(may) want it back at some point

Get your new manager/HR to get the old job closed and the new one started, people must move departments all the time.

etherealinsanity

Hey getmore4less,

I'll be moving from one department to a completely different one (I can't disclose which but it's like moving from the Home Office to the Department for Education), which is pretty much like moving companies. They have completely different HR teams, payment methods, IT systems, etc. and my new team won't be able to intervene with matters being handled by the old team, so I need to get this sorted myself.

Thank you for your help though!

getmore4less

Escalate to the old managers manager

etherealinsanity

I did that back in October, and then escalated to my manager's manager's manager but no one else can do anything as the HR overpayments team refuses to accept any communication unless it comes from my manager herself, who doesn't seem to be succeeding.

I'm happy to hold the money and then return it but just wanted to know if it would cause significant issues with HMRC, who will probably think I'm working two jobs and am earning the two salaries combined as opposed to the one.

Undervalued

etherealinsanity wrote: »

I did that back in October, and then escalated to my manager's manager's manager but no one else can do anything as the HR overpayments team refuses to accept any communication unless it comes from my manager herself, who doesn't seem to be succeeding.

I'm happy to hold the money and then return it but just wanted to know if it would cause significant issues with HMRC, who will probably think I'm working two jobs and am earning the two salaries combined as opposed to the one.

Well yes it could although such issues can always be corrected later!

What you must do is keep a careful paper (or email) trail to show that you have repeatedly advised them of their mistake. Almost certainly the penny (or multiple £KKKK) will eventually drop and they will want it back.

With it being civil service you could threaten to (and ultimately actually do) write to your MP. That might get some action.

etherealinsanity

Thanks Undervalued! I think I'll write to my MP on Monday and follow it up that way. I've had problems with HMRC calculating the wrong tax rate before and charging me extra tax, forgetting to set the right tax code and then having issues with refunding the tax so I don't want to go through all of that again. I also need the money for general living and I don't want to lose so much of it to tax I don't need to be paying, even if it means I'll get it back at a later date.

getmore4less

HR team have said needs to confirm that I've left in order to them to register the payments as 'overpayments'. When I have emailed my manager, she says she has already done this and that the HR team have gotten confused about the extension date.

All they probably need to do is send HR another "this person left form"


it does not matter what tax they take off the old job it is not your money.

When you start you get HR/HMRC to apply your tax code ALL to your new job.

etherealinsanity

Ah right, okay. That makes sense, thank you!

I'd still like to get it sorted out and for HMRC to know I'm not working two jobs in two completely different places though. It is just a matter of them sending off a form confirming my leave date again, but for whatever reason someone made a mistake when applying for my two week extension so the HR team want confirmation that I left on 6th September, while my manager wants to confirm that I left on 20th September. As neither team is communicating with the other, nothing's really moving along even though I've told each side what's happening and have set up 3 way emails (with no response).

If my manager presses 'confirm' on the current form, I'll have to repay the existing overpayments but also repay money for the additional two weeks that I worked so it's a whole mess!

TELLIT01

Write to your MP providing as much information as possible, including names of the individuals you have spoken to if available. Incompetence throughout the Civil Service is widespread and the worst offenders in my experience have been within HR, although I came across plenty of long serving managers who would have been sacked in private industry. Within the Civil Service they are simply moved to another department.

Floop

Actually you might be considered to have continuous service as there is such a small gap between your two jobs. You will still obviously owe them the money you’ve been overpaid.

By the way moving from one govt department to another is not like having two different employers, the two payrolls can talk to each other and you might find they end up automatically recovering from your new job’s pay if you don’t pay it back up front. Other deductions transfer between payrolls and they will most likely know you have recently worked for another CS department. Your new dept might not even put you on their payroll until the other department has confirmed you have been removed. Just a heads up that this could potentially be more troublesome than you think.

I know how slow and frustrating CS HR can be though, firsthand. A lot of departments outsource the Payroll function which makes it worse. Your manager is the one being CS useless though - they are the party who needs to sort it out and fill in the form with the correct information. They probably also need to have confirmation from a director that the extra two weeks was authorised - I suspect that might be the sticking point. No excuse for not sending off your leaver’s form though. HR will only act on their instructions so until they have the form there is no point badgering them. They should act swiftly once they do have it though, as you’re being overpaid.

Good luck convincing HMRC you don’t have two jobs......