Potential court costs

ktvillan

Ok my mistake.

One thing that came up int he previous thread I mentioned is that if the land is subject to byelaws there is a 6 month limit for completing parking charge notices. Is that an avenue worth exploring? The incident occurred in February 2019 and the original PCN was issued shortly thereafter.

ktvillan

Ah apologies The Deep I hadn't seen your latest response before posting

Redx

ktvillan wrote: »

Ok my mistake.

One thing that came up int he previous thread I mentioned is that if the land is subject to byelaws there is a 6 month limit for completing parking charge notices. Is that an avenue worth exploring? The incident occurred in February 2019 and the original PCN was issued shortly thereafter.

read the UKPPO Newcastle airport thread where Bountyhunter and others posted about the differences , where one was challenged on jurisdiction which cost £100 , the rest were challenged on contractual grounds

POFA does not apply to land with bylaws , so the POFA paragraphs do not apply , it's the 6 months that applies

As for when it arrives , a rejection is a rejection , be it out of time or not , be it on other grounds , or not , there is zero chance of it being accepted , so the reason for a rejection doesn't really matter

Your aim is to stop the keeper check and an ntk going to the keeper , which could happen from day 29 onwards , bank holidays etc don't affect the mathematical number of days, the newbies thread tells you that the appeal is to hook them in your direction and away from the garage

The day of the event is day zero, the day after is day 1

ktvillan

Hi RedX - I'm afraid I may be being a bit dim here but I'm not entirely clear what you mean by

As for when it arrives , a rejection is a rejection , be it out of time or not , be it on other grounds , or not , there is zero chance of it being accepted , so the reason for a rejection doesn't really matter

What/whose rejection are you referring to?

Also when you say:

Your aim is to stop the keeper check and an ntk going to the keeper , which could happen from day 29 onwards , bank holidays etc don't affect the mathematical number of days, the newbies thread tells you that the appeal is to hook them in your direction and away from the garage

The advice on requesting an SAR indicates I should request a NTK from the PPC as part of this whereas you appear to be saying I should avoid this. Sorry but this is a bit confusing.

Finally not sure what you mean by by hooking them away from the garage?

Coupon-mad

When the PCN was a parking charge notice, the 6 months is not applicable, even if issued on byelaws land. That only relates to PENALTY charge notices.

However, there is an argument that on byelaws land, no keeper liability can apply because the POFA does not apply. This is a different argument than trying to say (wrongly) that a Parking Charge Notice timed out after 6 months. It did not, as it was not issued under byelaws.

ktvillan

Mine is a parking charge not a penalty charge but the land is governed by bye-laws. I've read through quite a lot of threads but there's so much info that I'm still a bit confused as to what my best approach is.

I'm concluding from your post #26 coupon-mad that because it's a parking charge notice the bye-laws are not relevant at all to my case - is that correct?

Or are bye-laws relevant in the sense it makes it a non POFA situation? And if so is my best approach to challenge on the basis that non-POFA notices do not fall under county court jurisdiction?

The only other avenue I can see would be to challenge on the basis that they have added arbitrary additional charges.

waamo

Byelaws are very relevant as POFA does not apply on land covered by byelaws.

ktvillan

So if under bye-laws, and therefore not under POFA guidelines my defence options would be what:

An argument that there is no keeper liability, only driver liability, and I am not obliged to inform them of who the driver is and can simply deny I was driving?

That non-POFA notices do not fall under county court jurisdiction and the PPC only has up to 6 months to claim the costs via Magistrates court instead?

Am I right in understanding that if it's non-POFA then I can't defend on the basis of additional costs being added therefore it's abuse of process?

I've also drafted the following letter and accompanying SRA request. I woudl appreciate feedback on whether I should take anything out, or ask for further info such as proof they are contracted to monitor parking on the land, or confirmation as to whether it comes under POFA or bye-laws. Would that be showing my hand too much? :

Dear Sir or Madam

Further to your letter of 23rd December 2019 I enclose herewith a Subject Access Request (Data Protection Act 2018 / General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR)) for the attention of your Data Protection Officer or relevant staff member.

It is my understanding that submission of an SAR allows me to require a restriction of data processing and to request that the case should be put 'on hold'. Please can you ensure that this is applied.


Yours faithfully




Dear Sir or Madam
Subject access request ( Data Protection Act 2018 / General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR) )

Please supply the data about me that I am entitled to under data protection law relating to myself, ***** ******, at the address shown above as well as any other addresses you have on record for me.

I specifically require any information pertaining to the parking charge notice ref 2327854231 you issued to me, including but not exclusive to:

• Letters and emails sent and received including any appeal correspondence letters/emails;
• All photographs taken;
• Data obtained from other agencies or organisations;
• All other data you intend to rely on;
• A full copy of both the Parking Charge Notice and the Notice to Keeper.

Since you have sufficient data relating to me to have issued an LBA I do not anticipate any requirement for me to confirm my identity further.

In line with data protection law requirements I would expect you to respond to this request for data within one calendar month.

If you do not normally deal with these requests, please pass this letter to your Data Protection Officer, or relevant staff member. If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissioner’s Office can assist you. Its website is ico.org.uk or it can be contacted on 0303 123 1113.

Yours faithfully


Happy New Year to you all.

Redx

It's bylaws Penalty notices that do not come under civil court jurisdiction

Non POFA notices as contractual notices do come under civil court jurisdiction, because POFA is not mandatory , you seem to be cherry picking at facts and mixing up the scenarios

A keeper has no liability in cases where POFA does not apply , plus in cases where it does apply but the claimant failed POFA , in one way or another

A keeper has no liability in bylaw cases

A driver has liability in all cases, which is why we say don't tell em Pike !!

Additional costs fail as abuse of process due to

The Beavis case

The CRA 2015

POFA , due to the will of parliament

The CEC16 thread and abuse of process thread explain , in some cases a judge will strike out the claim , in others they strike out the additional charges but try the case anyway on the other topics , in some cases they disregard all those arguments , hence why coupon mad argued the CRA

The abuse of process is not a defence , it's an argument against the additional charges , not the pcn

ktvillan

Thanks for the response RedX but I'm afraid that's just confused me further.

From post #28 waamo informed me that POFA does not apply when bye-laws govern the land. So I took that to mean my case is both a bye-laws case (for which you say civil court jurisdiction doesn't apply) and a non-POFA case (for which you say civil court jurisdiction does apply). Forgive my stupidity but that seems contradictory.

I'm not cherry picking, I'm trying to dig out relevant info from pages and pages of threads without having much of a background in this type of thing, and I guess I'm not fully understanding certain things.