Private Land: Parked in a disabled bay (interesting story!)

ImranBro

Hi,

Really would appreciate some advice on this please. I don’t want to pay what I feel is an unjust charge.

A couple of months ago I received a parking charge notice for parking in a disabled bay.
At first I ignored it but a couple of weeks ago I received a letter from a collection agency requesting payment.

I wrote the following letter to P4Parking (from whom I received the ticket and are a member of the British Parking Association - BPA) just to find out what they had on me:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Reference (PCN): XXXXX

I recently received a letter from TNC requesting payment for an unpaid PCN from P4Parking which I was really surprised to receive.

Please could you provide me with evidence of contravention as I have strong reason to believe this is not the case.

Kind Regards,

XXXX

P4Parking treated this as an appeal (possibly because I addressed the letter to the address provided on the pcn) and provided photographs which weren’t very clear outlining the infringement (The picture is only showing the disabled sign partially because the sign is painted on the ground underneath the car.) They advised me that this was the last appeal for me and I needed to contact POPLA if I wanted to take it further.

The background to this is I live in a private development (shared ownership) and was never allocated any parking. However, I have been parking in this bay since I moved in (over 2 years ago now). When I started parking there was nothing painted on the bay but about 8 months ago, the contractors came and painted all the bays on our street and the one I parked in was painted with a disabled sign alongside a number (most general disabled bays do not have a number painted below it).

I asked the guys painting the bay if it belonged to anyone (as generally the number means it’s been allocated to someone) and they said they didn’t know. So I carried on parking there. Over the last few months the patrols have increased but I thought I was safe because the bay I was parking in had a number beneath the sign and because the car covered it. Until 19th October!

I have been parking in the same bay since (I simply do not have anywhere else to park) but for a short while I put a note on my car for the parking attendant explaining he’d made a mistake and thankfully this hasn’t repeated itself.

I’m being asked to pay £125 now for this charge (including £25 for the admin fees) and am loathe to pay it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated in terms of what I can now do.

A lot of people are getting fed up of the ticketing that’s been going on recently. The irony is we pay the management company a service charge for the upkeep and part of that is the parking enforcement (so we’re paying to get ticketed!).

Thanks,

DoaM

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6083997/private-land-parked-in-a-disabled-bay-interesting-story

OP's thread in Motoring. There's nothing new or interesting here.

The_Deep

I’m being asked to pay £125 now for this charge (including £25 for the admin fees)

That extra £25 may be unlawful, read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6014081/abuse-of-process-district-judge-tells-bwlegal

This is a difficult one. why are the spaces numbered if they are not allocated? Are we to take it that parking is on a first come first serve basis? Are there sufficient spaces for every flat? If not, where do people park?

Please read this

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The important thing here is what does your lease say about parking? [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Does it mention the need to display a permit? Does it mention disabled or visitors spaces, or permits? What do the PPCs signs say? [/FONT]

You say that there is shared ownership, with whom, is it a Housing Asoociation? Do you have a share in the freehold? Who manages the properties?


[/FONT]

ImranBro

Thanks @The Deep.

Nothing in the lease about parking other than there's no allocated parking. There's more of us without parking allocation and a limited number of bays unallocated bays. We've all come to an understanding in terms of where we park.

The terms on the boards put across the development don't specifically mention displaying disabled badges but the reply I received today mentions (and the boards displayed across the site) reference 'Parked in contravention of any of the parking regulations' And then they provide a number to contact to check what those are. Nothing specific about displaying disabled badges though.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Akh06PgPxDZqlFSID-zY4mMTCDoA

The link above is the parking rules. Do let me know if you can see anything untoward.

Shared Ownership is with a Housing Association called Homegroup, and yes I own half the property. The estate is managed by a company called Rendall and Rittner.

Thanks,

Redx

POFA states that the only recoverable charge is what is listed on the signs , usually £100 or less

that sign states £100

report P4 PARKING plus TNC to the BPA because of the added £25 charge, as a breach of their CoP, add a copy of the NTK to the complaint , plus a copy of that sign too


we must presume that under the EA2010 the management company had to mark disabled spot bays to comply with the law, hence the disabled sign on the floor


not being funny but without qualifying under the EA 2010 you should be avoiding that particular bay , plus any other disabled bays as well


I appreciate you dont have a numbered bay to park in , so you need to clarify where you can park seeing as you are paying for parking on that estate

beamerguy

ImranBro wrote: »

Thanks @The Deep.

Nothing in the lease about parking other than there's no allocated parking. There's more of us without parking allocation and a limited number of bays unallocated bays. We've all come to an understanding in terms of where we park.

The terms on the boards put across the development don't specifically mention displaying disabled badges but the reply I received today mentions (and the boards displayed across the site) reference 'Parked in contravention of any of the parking regulations' And then they provide a number to contact to check what those are. Nothing specific about displaying disabled badges though.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Akh06PgPxDZqlFSID-zY4mMTCDoA

The link above is the parking rules. Do let me know if you can see anything untoward.

Shared Ownership is with a Housing Association called Homegroup, and yes I own half the property. The estate is managed by a company called Rendall and Rittner.

Thanks,

First thing I see that in the small print is the additional charge but they do not tell you what the amount is.
That is an unfair contract.
Where do they get this from ....... the BPA of course who are enticing their members to break the law of POFA2012

READ HOW THE BPA AND IPC entice their members to break the
law
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6083229/bpa-cop-clause-19-9-and-34-8

ImranBro

beamerguy wrote: »

First thing I see that in the small print is the additional charge but they do not tell you what the amount is.
That is an unfair contract.
Where do they get this from ....... the BPA of course who are enticing their members to break the law of POFA2012

READ HOW THE BPA AND IPC entice their members to break the
law
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6083229/bpa-cop-clause-19-9-and-34-8

So the additional £25 is the admin fee being charged by the debt collectors. Because I didn't reply initially, they got DVLA to check my registration and this debt collection company wrote me a letter requesting to pay the £125.

Redx

so report P4 and TNC to the BPA for adding on that spurious £25 to the headline charge, which is typically set by the BPA at no more than £100 in any NTK , no matter who sends it


the fact that P4 use TNC as their back office is irrelevant to the charge , even POFA limits it

Coupon-mad

ImranBro wrote: »

So the additional £25 is the admin fee being charged by the debt collectors. Because I didn't reply initially, they got DVLA to check my registration and this debt collection company wrote me a letter requesting to pay the £125.

But they can't do that, as the parking charge already includes all costs.

Are you saying you have a current PoPLA code? Of so show us your appeal draft based on those POPLA templates you found when you read the NEWBIES thread.

The sign doesn't mention disabled bays. Is there a sign next to the bay?

ImranBro

Coupon-mad wrote: »

But they can't do that, as the parking charge already includes all costs.

Are you saying you have a current PoPLA code? Of so show us your appeal draft based on those POPLA templates you found when you read the NEWBIES thread.

The sign doesn't mention disabled bays. Is there a sign next to the bay?

Thank you. Yes they have given me a POPLA code. I will go through the newbie thread and come back,

There's no other signage relating to disabled bays other than the terms I provided in the link. But they do mention in their appeal reply letter. Which I'll shortly post.

ImranBro

Is it worth contacting the management company stating that by asking me to pay an additional £25, the parking company are acting improperly? Might be a quicker way than writing to POPLA with an appeal.