Smart parking/lease/company car

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Parking Charge Notice - NEED ADVICE!!
Hello have read the newbie thread but still a little confused.

Mutiple PCN was sent to hirer of vehicle (LEX AUTOLEASE) for Contravention back in October 2019 at a Private Parking Land there are still further PCN's to come through. The PCN were paid for and invoice was sent to Driver's Company in which Company would automatically deduct discounted rate plus £20 admin fees ( So you can imagine how much it would come up to collectively).

PCN was generated due to 'OVERSTAYING TIME' - This is actually incorrect as the signage within the area states First 3 hours free parking. None of the signs states that The Free parking is not included in total parking stay. Also, Parking is paid for at the end with customer having to tell the machine how long you have stay ( Nowhere does it say, Free 3 hours is not included in total). Driver's viewpoint is that 8 hours total - 3 hours Free parking = Pay 5 Hours Not Pay 8 hours total.

A complaint via email has been made to Landowner regarding Misleading signage and PCN Payment but they seem disinterested in really helping to over turn the Paid and unpaid PCN, however the manager has said the matter will be decided by her manager.

Driver has contacted company who driver works for and Lease company and apparently the policy that was agreed between both Lease company & Driver Company is that any Charges both Parking and Penalty will automatically get paid and then an invoice will be sent out to Driver Company. This means that Driver cannot appeal cases especially because by the time driver receives notice from company this has taken driver over the 28 day limit.

Looking through some of the previous threads, Driver has taken some pointers contacted Lease Company to request a Permission which allows Driver to appeal & asked to NOT pay any future payments ( which they said they cant, however, they can included driver to email list so that when any further PCN's arrive, Driver will be made aware to quickly contact Lease Company to recall the funds). Driver has also sent an appeal to the existing PCN that are yet to be paid for by Lease without accepting liability but discussing the forfeit of appeal process and misleading signage from both SMART PARKING and Landowners. Driver has also mentioned in appeal Schedule 4 of POFA for not giving Driver right to appeal case and mentioned POPLA if case is not accepted. Lastly mentioning complaint made to Landowners and Local MP and how much distressed caused.

Please note that Driver did contact SMART Parking quite a few to confirm any additional PCN and one of the Advisory Team was very eager to take a name down which driver gave a false name being aware that if a name was attached to PCN, it may be used against driver. The only time Driver used real name was when completing appeal online with evidence of paid parking hours, advertising in area. To add to this, Imagery SMART PARKING has does not actual identify Driver

A Couple of Questions
1. Does Driver have right to appeal case even if Lease company and Driver company have a policy between them
2. What further grounds can Driver use if taken POPLA as Driver will have to wait up to 35 days to hear outcome
3. Can Driver take any steps between Company and Lease company as they have automatically accepted Liability for Driver which was wrong
4. Both Lease company and Driver have said that once appeal is overturned, refunds and cancellations will be processed accordingly

Have taken a look at Edna B Template but does seem to really help. if an example template can be provided this will much appreciated

Thank you

Redx

1) , yes , if SMART knew who was driving, usually they dont unless somebody told them

a driver is always legally liable if known

2) if SMART offer POPLA and give a popla code, driver can appeal to popla , but not without the valid code

3) if the lease company paid it , they accepted responsibility and cannot pass to a driver or keeper unless its in the lease contract, so check the contract (dont look for penalty charge notices or council issued notices, look for private parking charge notices)

4) then that should happen

the EDNA BASHER templates and all his edvice is the best you will get , nobody does it better (as it says in the James Bond films)

what should happen is

PCN or NTK goes to lease or hire company


lease or hire company follow the BVRLA memorandum and name the lessee or hirer or company vehicle keeper, absolving themselves under POFA (NO LONGER LIABLE)

the Parking company issue a NTH to that lessee or hirer, as day to day keeper

the LESSEE or HIRER appeal to the PPC as keeper (lessee , hirer , whatever , its all keeper)

the PPC reject the lessee/hirer/keeper appeal

the Parking company issue a POPLA code to lessee.hirer/keeper

the lessee/hirer/keeper appeals to POPLA

if anyone blabs about who was driving , then POFA no longer applies and the driver has to do all the work

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Redx wrote: »

1) , yes , if SMART knew who was driving, usually they dont unless somebody told them

a driver is always legally liable if known

2) if SMART offer POPLA and give a popla code, driver can appeal to popla , but not without the valid code

3) if the lease company paid it , they accepted responsibility and cannot pass to a driver or keeper unless its in the lease contract, so check the contract (dont look for penalty charge notices or council issued notices, look for private parking charge notices)

4) then that should happen

the EDNA BASHER templates and all his edvice is the best you will get , nobody does it better (as it says in the James Bond films)

what should happen is

PCN or NTK goes to lease or hire company


lease or hire company follow the BVRLA memorandum and name the lessee or hirer or company vehicle keeper, absolving themselves under POFA (NO LONGER LIABLE)

the Parking company issue a NTH to that lessee or hirer, as day to day keeper

the LESSEE or HIRER appeal to the PPC as keeper (lessee , hirer , whatever , its all keeper)

the PPC reject the lessee/hirer/keeper appeal

the Parking company issue a POPLA code to lessee.hirer/keeper

the lessee/hirer/keeper appeals to POPLA

if anyone blabs about who was driving , then POFA no longer applies and the driver has to do all the work

Brilliant!
Seems relatively straight forward ( Bites Lips and looks either side)

when asked about contract between both lease and driver company, all that was said was that Driver's company have authorised Lease Company to pay all Parking automatically. Other Charges such as Speeding tickets etc as usual sent directly through channels until Driver receives letter through the post - will try to contact Lease Company again.

According to Permission letter given to send with appeal, it only states that the Driver(s) will be appealing and have given 2 Drivers Names BUT has not confirmed who was liable for the incidents

Will read through Edna Template once more

Thank you

Redx

neither the lease company nor the driver company can name the drivers, a driver is only known by the driver themselves

they could assume that they know who was driving , but assumptions are not facts and if they do not know the facts , they cannot state them

the driver company can only pass lessee (keeper) details on , because they know who the keeper (lessee) was on the day in question , be it one of the drivers , both drivers or a busload of drivers, anyone could be driving , even me, or a mechanic , or the police, or somebody driving without permission , anyone !!!

however, if a driver says "it was me , I was the driver" , take me to court, then an admitted driver is always liable and the law takes its course

had this been a speeding offence , then the option to name the person committing the offence would be given , in the NIP

Allboxes

Redx wrote: »

neither the lease company nor the driver company can name the drivers, a driver is only known by the driver themselves

they could assume that they know who was driving , but assumptions are not facts and if they do not know the facts , they cannot state them

the driver company can only pass lessee (keeper) details on , because they know who the keeper (lessee) was on the day in question , be it one of the drivers , both drivers or a busload of drivers, anyone could be driving , even me, or a mechanic , or the police, or somebody driving without permission , anyone !!!

however, if a driver says "it was me , I was the driver" , take me to court, then an admitted driver is always liable and the law takes its course

had this been a speeding offence , then the option to name the person committing the offence would be given , in the NIP

Thank you for the Vital information!

Hopefully the False name and Multiple will not affect Driver's Case and Landowner's can overturn outcome by the new year or something.

Any other key information will also be much appreciated & will keep all informed of any updates

Allboxes

UPDATE!!!!

A response has been sent back regarding the paid 3 PCN's. It reads;

"Thank you for your communication
We note the comments made and we acknowledge the supporting evidence enclosed. We can confirm that as full payment has been made against the PCN, we are no longer under any obligation to appeal at this stage.
Please note, The BPA Code of Practice January 2018, paragraph 18.2 ..........we confirm all singnage on site is BPA Approved.....There is no ambiguous language or Jargon ..........as full payment has been received, we consider this matter closed".

Contacted SMART PARKING- Been advised that, matter is be taken up with Lease Company for paying PCN.

Still awaiting response for other PCN's

Question!!
Can paid PCN be overturned although, SMART have considered the matter to be closed ?

Redx

Only if Smart agree , but then the people who paid it have really admitted liability and have also denied any appeals by the hirer or lessee or keeper , so if the registered keeper paid it , it's their problem not yours

If they wanted to deny liability they should have followed POFA 2012 and also the BVRLA guidelines and nominated the keeper on the day , with their name and address , as lessee or as hirer

In other words , if the invoice doesn't have your name on it , it's not your legal problem

You wouldn't pay for their diesel , or a new clutch , or a new tyre , if the invoice was in their name , it needs your name on it for liability to pass to you

That is unless your contract of employment specifically passes liability for private parking tickets to you , same as it might for penalty notices , actual fines , speeding , council tickets etc , so check your contract of employment

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UPDATE!!!!!!

Just had an email come back for the existing 3 PCN’s

“Thank you for your recent communication.

I have noted the points you raised and would like to confirm that we are cancelling the Parking Charge Notice.

If I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.

Yours sincerely,

Smart Parking Ltd”

Thank you everyone for your help!

This had made my day��

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Redx wrote: »

Only if Smart agree , but then the people who paid it have really admitted liability and have also denied any appeals by the hirer or lessee or keeper , so if the registered keeper paid it , it's their problem not yours

If they wanted to deny liability they should have followed POFA 2012 and also the BVRLA guidelines and nominated the keeper on the day , with their name and address , as lessee or as hirer

In other words , if the invoice doesn't have your name on it , it's not your legal problem

You wouldn't pay for their diesel , or a new clutch , or a new tyre , if the invoice was in their name , it needs your name on it for liability to pass to you

That is unless your contract of employment specifically passes liability for private parking tickets to you , same as it might for penalty notices , actual fines , speeding , council tickets etc , so check your contract of employment

SMART do not agree.
Will be contacting Lease Company in the morning, Hopefully will be using the grounds of cancellation of the 3 PCN's to justify a full refund.

Coupon-mad

Yep, should be possible. Happy New Year and well done for getting one/all of them cancelled and refunded to the stupid lease firm!

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UPDATE!!!

Hi do back again. After getting 3 cancelled. Another one has come through & has been rejected which is very bizarre on the basis thar 3 have been overturned for the same reason. POPLA code has been given & what makes it even funny is that Signage around the area has now been changed. Any advice to how to write a popla letter ?