Armtrac appeal rejected help please

Apr1le

Hi

I’ve looked through the threads but I’m struggling to work out my best options following my appeal.
I purchased a ticket which I stuck to my windscreen but after less than 30 minutes it fell off and landed on the passenger seat face up. I received a ticket and the photos they took were positioned so the ticket was just out of shot.
I have appealed with the following letter and today received the response that follows:

09/12/2019

Dear Sir/ Madam,

I am writing to formally challenge the following parking ticket.

Ticket no:
Issued on: 07 / 12 / 2019
Vehicle reg:
Car park location: NA Trevithick Road Camborne TR14 8JX

I am writing to formally challenge the above PCN.

On 07 / 12 / 2019 my vehicle was issued with the parking ticket above for the following reason: ZP42980 Not displaying a valid pay and display ticket.

I am challenging this parking ticket as I purchased a ticket on 7/12/19 at 13:53 I paid using a £2 coin and then placed the ticket on my windscreen using the adhesive backing Provided. On returning to the car at 14:40 I found a parking ticket stuck to my drivers side door. I was shocked to see this after purchasing a ticket so went to the passenger side and saw that the adhesive had failed and the ticket was on the passenger side seat face up. I took a photo (sadly not the best quality but the best my phone could do) and then set off as there was nobody available to discuss further.

I have today viewed the photographic evidence and note how the photos were strategically taken so as not to show the ticket in the car despite it clearly being there. I still have the ticket along with photographic evidence I will send attached to this email.

As I parked by the meter (it was in front of me) it is highly likely that there will be cctv footage of me purchasing and displaying the ticket and are currently in the process of contacting the market, vets and retirement flats to see if their footage captures this also. I also request you review your footage if you have any and would like a copy of this if available and my appeal is declined.

As the ticket states then vehicle was parked on private property In a manner where the driver agreed to pay a parking charge as displayed on the signage at the site’. As I have purchased a valid ticket and displayed it prior to leaving the car park, I would like to appeal this decision as I have abided by the agreement noted on the signage.

Due to the poor quality adhesive on the ticket it led to the ticket falling but was face up o the seat. The ticket was applied to a clean and dry windscreen and stuck without problem when I applied it. Due to selective photography it has made it look like I did now have a valid ticket and will provide this to support my case.

Please find enclosed evidence to this effect and I also ask that you freeze any early payment discount I'm entitled to, pending the outcome of this appeal.

For this reason, I look forward to receiving notification within 28 days that the PCN has been cancelled.

Yours faithfully,


I attached photos of the ticket and if it’s position in the car including the times they were taken.

I then received this:

Issue date: 07/12/2019
11/12/2019
Thank you for your appeal received on 10/12/2019 regarding the above detailed Parking Charge Notice. We have reviewed the case and considered the comments that you have made. This appeal has been considered in conjunction with the evidence gathered by the parking attendant. Our records show that the notice was correctly issued as your vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Parking. All motorist's have a duty of care to abide by the clearly displayed terms and conditions of parking in return for permission to park on the site and Armtrac Security Services have a duty of care to the landowner to ensure the clearly displayed terms and conditions of parking are being adhered to.
There was no ticket displayed within your vehicle at the time of inspection by our Patrol Officer therefore invalid and the PCN was legitimately issued.
Our photographic evidence shows your vehicle was not displaying a valid ticket and you were legitimately issued with a Parking Charge Notice. For a pay and display ticket to be valid it must be displayed correctly face up for inspection by our patrol officer.
It is the driver’s responsibility to ensure that the pay and display ticket is correctly and securely displayed. We have a duty to the landowners who contact us to carry out periodic patrols on their behalf to ensure the rules are adhered to.
The Patrol Officer is under no duty to search your vehicle for a valid ticket and should not need to if the ticket has been securely and clearly displayed within the vehicle.
In response to your comment that the Photographs were strategically taken to not show your ticket, the rules of the site state that the ticket must be displayed correctly attached to the windscreen and it is not for the Patrol Officer to search your vehicle for a Valid Ticket.
In response to your comments that you would like us to check the CCTV footage and provide you with said footage, Armtrac Security do not operate or have access to the CCTV or the Footage.
In response to your comments that you have provided proof of purchase of a Valid Ticket, as stated on our warning sites, it states Retrospective Evidence of Authority to Park will not be accepted.
Our Warning Signs clearly inform members of the public what the charge will be if they are to breach the rules of parking, these signs clearly state RETROSPECTIVE AUTHORITY TO PARK WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED. BY PARKING OR REMAINING ON THIS LAND, YOU THE DRIVER ACCEPT LIABILITY TO PAY THE PARKING CHARGE FOR ANY FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS CONTAINED WITHIN THIS SIGN. We can see in the photographic evidence that we hold for this PCN that your vehicle was parked within clear view of one of our warning signs, therefore we feel that you have been made fully aware that this is private land and that any vehicle parked not displaying a valid authorising permit or Pay & Display Ticket will be liable to receive a PCN. We have approximately 300 sites and it is not always the same Patrol Officer covering a particular site and they cannot be expected to remember every vehicle that parks on a particular site, therefore the only way our Patrol Officers know that a vehicle is authorised to park is by them displaying the valid Permit or pay & display ticket. The Patrol Officer is under no duty to search your vehicle for the permit or Pay & Display Ticket and should not need to if the permit or Pay & Display ticket is clearly displayed within the vehicle at all times. All photographic evidence can be viewed online at .... by entering BOTH your PCN reference number and VRM. Armtrac Security Services are not the landowner, we have been contracted by the landowner to ensure the clearly displayed site rules of parking are being adhered to. As this site is clearly signed to show what the site rules are the landowner has requested that any vehicles left on the site in contravention of the rules be issued with a PCN, landowner's have the right to set the rules of parking on their land and the right to enforce those rules. The landowner at this site has stated that all vehicles that are permitted to park on this site will have already obtained a valid permit or a Pay & Display Ticket from the landowner or machines on site and have it prominently displayed within the windscreen of the vehicle at all times. If any vehicles were going to be parked on this site without displaying a valid authorising permit or pay & display ticket then we would have been informed of the vehicle registration details so this could have been placed on our authorised vehicle list therefore exempt from the parking regulations.
We are therefore unable to cancel this Parking Charge Notice as it was issued correctly. The case is now considered closed. You now have 3 options from which to choose- 1. Pay the Parking Charge Notice of £60.00 within 14 days, after which time the discounted rate will no longer apply and the Parking Charge Notice will rise to £100.00. 2. Make an appeal to the IAS. The Independent Appeals Service ..... provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of this rejection. In order to appeal, you will need your parking charge number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued. Please note that if you wish to appeal to the IAS you will lose the right to pay the charge at the discounted rate of £60.00 and should the IAS's decision not go in favour you will be required to pay the full amount of £100.00. 3. If you choose to do nothing and the Parking Charge Notice remains unpaid after 35 days the matter may be passed onto other hands for collection. You can send a cheque payable to Armtrac Security Services and please send it to Armtrac Security Services, PO Box 154, Penzance, TR20 9WD. You can pay online 24/7 at ..... or alternatively you can phone the office Monday to Friday 9am – 5pm on 0371 2000 476.
Kind Regards,

Appeals Department at Armtrac Security Services.


Any advice on what I should do next would be greatly received. I can’t afford the £60 fine let alone £100

Thanks

Apr1le

Please also note they asked if I was the driver or keeper so stated I was the keeper if that makes any difference

KeithP

If that is the real ticket number you have posted then that is enough for the parking company to associate this thread with a particular incident.

You might want to edit your post.

Fruitcake

As above, redact your PCN number. I think it is too late to worry about stating you were the keeper as I think there is probably enough information in your appeal to work out on the balance of probabilities who the driver was.

That cannot be helped now, but it is one of the reasons why we recommend using the appeal template you will find in the NEWBIES to ensure the driver's identity is not given away.

The NEWBIES also tells you what to do if/when the initial appeal is rejected.

No to IAS
Ignore debt collectors
Get pics of the sign and signage asap in case they try court.

What happened when you complained to the landowner/retail managers?

Umkomaas

Apr1le wrote: »

Please also note they asked if I was the driver or keeper so stated I was the keeper if that makes any difference

It no longer matters with this gold nugget:

As I parked by the meter

Any protection you had as the keeper under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) was thrown in the bin by that single sentence. :doh:

So it's a case now of ignoring the opportunity to have a further appeal rejected by engaging with the IAS, riding out any (totally harmless) debt collector letters that come your way, but being ready for any formal Letter of Claim and/or court claim from the Northampton CCBC, neither of which you ignore, you come back here then for further advice.

They have six years to issue a court claim.

beamerguy

If you choose to do nothing and the Parking Charge Notice remains unpaid after 35 days the matter may be passed onto other hands for collection.

Armtrac being members of the scam IPC/IAS, are in turn scammers themselves

They have given you the impression that if you don't pay something bad will happen ???

I reality, they pass it to a brain dead debt collector who is 100% powerless ... YOU IGNORE whatever they say.

Once the debt collector gives up and tells Armtrac they are a failure, it is then up to Armtrac what they do.

However, if you have proof you paid, then the next stage is to accuse Armtrak of stealing your money

Apr1le

Fruitcake wrote: »

As above, redact your PCN number. I think it is too late to worry about stating you were the keeper as I think there is probably enough information in your appeal to work out on the balance of probabilities who the driver was.

That cannot be helped now, but it is one of the reasons why we recommend using the appeal template you will find in the NEWBIES to ensure the driver's identity is not given away.

The NEWBIES also tells you what to do if/when the initial appeal is rejected.

No to IAS
Ignore debt collectors
Get pics of the sign and signage asap in case they try court.

What happened when you complained to the landowner/retail managers?

I can’t find details of them and Armtrac aren’t being helpful otherwise I would have contacted them in the first instance.

Umkomaas

Apr1le wrote: »

I can’t find details of them and Armtrac aren’t being helpful otherwise I would have contacted them in the first instance.

No PPC in the country will give you that sort of information. They will give you nothing that risks them losing their grip on you and their opportunity to snatch your cash.

Instead, here are a few helpful forum ideas to find the required information:

Google search
Call local council - who pays the non-domestic rate on the car park
Check local Valuation Office website which can provide useful information leading to ownership identification
Call any on-site retailers and ask who they understand is the landowner or managing agent
Check any signs listing retailers on site, often a notice board at the site entrance, with the managing agent noted at the foot
Paying The Land Registry (£3-£4) for definitive information on ownership

Coupon-mad

What did you learn from all the other recent Armtrac fluttering ticket threads where people are ahead of you, and are defending and winning court cases?