Private land riding and parking

millionairmind

Some area in England, in city center have private land is open to public. As a courier rider we get told to get off our bike. Normal commuter cyclist do use the same way as us. It’s a big road walking wastes a lot of our time. And it’s empty mostly during off peak. These SIA badge holders come and they talk to us disrespectfully. We argue back because they are shouting. Most of our pick ups and drop offs are in that private land. What can we do? We can’t avoid it.

1. They have a few signs with cyclists dismount. What legal actions can they take?
Can they ban us?
Can they confiscate our bikes?

If they ask us our names and detail. Do we have to give?

esuhl

millionairmind wrote: »

1. They have a few signs with cyclists dismount. What legal actions can they take?

None at all -- such signs are advisory. There would need to be bylaws in place that specifically ban cycling, as well as approved "no cycling" signs. However, on private land, I'm not sure any road signs would be legally enforceable(?).

millionairmind wrote: »

If they ask us our names and detail. Do we have to give?

You don't have to give your details to anyone, unless you're involved in an accident or are detained on suspicion of an offence by a uniformed police officer.

The landowner could revoke your right of access to the land. However, trespass is not a criminal offence, and the landowner could only prosecute you for any damage caused (i.e. none).

esuhl

I wonder if the staff would be committing an offence of "obstruction" if they tried to stop you. I believe that is a criminal offence.

millionairmind

Great information. Love you guys. Also what about our bikes can they confiscate? ❤️❤️

onomatopoeia99

esuhl wrote: »

I wonder if the staff would be committing an offence of "obstruction" if they tried to stop you. I believe that is a criminal offence.

You need to be more specific than that. There are offences of obstructing the highway (Highways act 1980 s137) which doesn't apply as it is private land, and obstructing a police officer (Police Act 1996 s89) but the OP is a pushbike courier.

What other "obstruction" offence is there?

esuhl

millionairmind wrote: »

Great information. Love you guys.

Hey, I'm no lawyer! I'd do your own googling to back up what I'm saying. Just to be sure...

millionairmind wrote: »

Also what about our bikes can they confiscate? ❤️❤️

No! They can't take your property! If they don't give it back at once, it's theft -- another criminal offence.

onomatopoeia99 wrote: »

You need to be more specific than that. There are offences of obstructing the highway (Highways act 1980 s137) which doesn't apply as it is private land, and obstructing a police officer (Police Act 1996 s89) but the OP is a pushbike courier.

What other "obstruction" offence is there?

Even if it's private land, if it's open to the public, there may be a right of way. Obstructing rightful passage would then be illegal (e.g. if the staff ran in front of the cyclist and stopped him).


I'm no expert on this -- just throwing out what I've read on the matter, so the OP has a few starting points.

Norman_Castle

Even if it's private land, if it's open to the public, there may be a right of way. Obstructing rightful passage would then be illegal (e.g. if the staff ran in front of the cyclist and stopped him).

I don't think stopping cycling in a pedestrianised area would be considered obstruction. They're not being denied access, they're being asked to walk.

NBLondon

It's a balancing act between the couriers trying to do their job and not being anti-social to others using that space. I guess if enough of the tenants complained, the landlords (who own the space) might try to take action against identifiable courier companies. Whether it's a right of way or not might take a bit of investigation - in an older city centre, there might be an existing right of way that has to be honoured but in a new development, the land may have been completely private and all access is at landowners discretion. If the landowner turns out to be e.g. Network Rail - there might actually be a by-law.

I'd guess there's an attitude check on both sides. Some of the private security types will be trying to exercise their bit of power for the sake of it; others will be trying to prevent the minority of anti-social cyclists from being a risk or nuisance to others and applying rules to all.

Undervalued

esuhl wrote: »

No! They can't take your property! If they don't give it back at once, it's theft -- another criminal offence.



Even if it's private land, if it's open to the public, there may be a right of way. Obstructing rightful passage would then be illegal (e.g. if the staff ran in front of the cyclist and stopped him).

It would only be theft if there was an intention to permanently deprive the rightful owner of their property.

A right of way (if there is one) is another matter but even then they would only have the right to peacefully pass and re-pass on the actual right of way and not go elsewhere on the private land.

Also any right of way would likely only be on foot. Unless I am out of date it is illegal to cycle on a public footpath unless it is specifically allowed.

If there is no right of way then they are trespassing and can be asked to leave. If they refuse the minimum force necessary may be used to remove them.

Mr_Singleton

esuhl wrote: »

None at all -- such signs are advisory. There would need to be bylaws in place that specifically ban cycling, as well as approved "no cycling" signs. However, on private land, I'm not sure any road signs would be legally enforceable(?)

The landowner could revoke your right of access to the land. However, trespass is not a criminal offence, and the landowner could only prosecute you for any damage caused (i.e. none).

So a cyclist could take a short cut through your back garden?

Undervalued

Mr_Singleton wrote: »

So a cyclist could take a short cut through your back garden?

Basically yes, this is a consequence of trespass not being a criminal offence in itself. Your garden is no more and no less a piece of private property than a farmer's field.

If they do any damage they are of course liable for it. You can ask them to leave and if they refuse you could lawfully use the minimum force necessary to remove them. If the same person does it repeatedly you could probably get a court order preventing them from doing it again. If they breach that, then they are in contempt of court and could well go to prison.

Their behaviour may or may not constitute intimidation or harassment (which are criminal offences) depending on the circumstances. However just walking or cycling through occasionally is unlikely to do so.