Investigatory Meeting - we need notes and help!

emily.wild

Hi all,

It is important for me to say first that I do not have a lot of time - so please answer this as soon as you can and as many people as possible - we need different opinions and scenarios that we can bring up with them.

My partner and I both work at the same place, nice lil restaurant, we actually met here and we grew fond of each other, him on the bar and myself as a waitress - and got together. We have never had any problems working together -always got along. The workplace do not mind that we are now in a relationship.

A few months ago, things got a little difficult for my partner. There have been four different occasions in the past three to four months, in which my partner has been questioned about money at the workplace. For example, one time he was asked if he counted the tills correctly and as the tills were down, where the money from the till had gone. It was around £45.00 that the till was down by - but he could not answer to this for he did not know why it was down so much.

Another example of this was when he counted the tips out at the end of a particularly busy evening of service. They had already been pre-counted by another colleague - and so when my partner had divvied up the tips for each colleague and they weren't quite right - he was questioned again. We are talking about pence. It felt like they were setting up traps for him to fall into.

Anyway, little things like this just kept happening and kept happening.

I now want to make it abundantly clear that this establishment is not the type to have sincere concentration. During the Summer, it can be get so busy at this work place that people make mistakes and do things without intention. For example, if you are running over to the till to put 5 different orders through, you may quickly log on using someone else's till number.

I also want to add, that a few weeks ago he gave me a higher discount than the staff discount I should have had on a cod and chips (I basically had £4 off). but discounts have never really been taken seriously. I'm not saying that this is okay, but it cannot be one rule for one and another rule for another. If the assistant managers family come in and have food and drink, rarely does that assistant manager charge then for say the round of drinks they had.

Now, after months of treading on egg shells with this work place, my partner received an email this morning stating that he must go to an investigatory meeting TOMORROW. He has been given no notice to prepare anything!

The reasons they are giving him for this is:

- "using a clerk number, other than you own, to process customer transactions, in particular during November" (which everybody has done for the YEARS I have been at this work place!)

- "Giving a high level of discount for certain transactions during November" (which is what I had discussed about giving me £4 off a cod and chips.... after the assistant manager and other colleagues have multiple times given free drinks to people they know, family or friends)

Tomorrow at 10:15am my partner is going to an investigatory meeting. I am allowed to attend the meeting, but I can't answer questions on his behalf. I know you can only take my word for it, but please know that he has been in the dark about this situation for months. Imagine going into a work place with the feeling of being watched? Your colleagues acting particularly off with you and you just have no idea as to why? He is one of the sweetest, trustworthy, kind individuals I have ever met in my life - which may to some sound biased, but it's the truth. He doesn't deserve what is happening to him.

He has had barely any hours over these past months because they have week by week taken them away from him because they think it's him... what do we do? what can I do? what can he do? He has been the longest person to work at this workplace, all other colleagues have come after him, and he is being treated like this.

We are both on the breadline too, after the assistant manager promised me hours during the winter and gave me only 9 hours a week (they say this is only word of mouth promise and nothing was written down, my fault for trusting him). They did the same to my partner, after we both busted our butts for this place over the summer.

I think it is important to also note, that the assistant manager has told other colleagues about some very personal things about myself. I couldn't make it to work for a day about a month ago now, because I was in hospital the night before. However, when I came back to work the following week, everybody knew about my situation and said the assistant manager had told them. When I asked him about this, he said he was sorry and that a few people overheard him discussing the matter with our manager whilst behind the bar. Discussing MY matter behind the bar for all to hear?! Maybe there is something I can do about that??

I think personally that it does come down to this assistant manager causing problems - and my colleague feels the same.

With all the information I have given - there must be some advice you guys can give me on this, I beg! It surely cannot be one thing for one person and then another for another in regards to the rules. What do we do?

Again, any advice and guidance will be thoroughly appreciated at this time. He is not the type of person to deserve this - ever. Please give us some help and things to add to our notes!

xxx

Undervalued

emily.wild wrote: »

Hi all,

It is important for me to say first that I do not have a lot of time - so please answer this as soon as you can and as many people as possible - we need different opinions and scenarios that we can bring up with them.

My partner and I both work at the same place, nice lil restaurant, we actually met here and we grew fond of each other, him on the bar and myself as a waitress - and got together. We have never had any problems working together -always got along. The workplace do not mind that we are now in a relationship.

A few months ago, things got a little difficult for my partner. There have been four different occasions in the past three to four months, in which my partner has been questioned about money at the workplace. For example, one time he was asked if he counted the tills correctly and as the tills were down, where the money from the till had gone. It was around £45.00 that the till was down by - but he could not answer to this for he did not know why it was down so much.

Another example of this was when he counted the tips out at the end of a particularly busy evening of service. They had already been pre-counted by another colleague - and so when my partner had divvied up the tips for each colleague and they weren't quite right - he was questioned again. We are talking about pence. It felt like they were setting up traps for him to fall into.

Anyway, little things like this just kept happening and kept happening.

I now want to make it abundantly clear that this establishment is not the type to have sincere concentration. During the Summer, it can be get so busy at this work place that people make mistakes and do things without intention. For example, if you are running over to the till to put 5 different orders through, you may quickly log on using someone else's till number.

I also want to add, that a few weeks ago he gave me a higher discount than the staff discount I should have had on a cod and chips (I basically had £4 off). but discounts have never really been taken seriously. I'm not saying that this is okay, but it cannot be one rule for one and another rule for another. If the assistant managers family come in and have food and drink, rarely does that assistant manager charge then for say the round of drinks they had.

Now, after months of treading on egg shells with this work place, my partner received an email this morning stating that he must go to an investigatory meeting TOMORROW. He has been given no notice to prepare anything!

The reasons they are giving him for this is:

- "using a clerk number, other than you own, to process customer transactions, in particular during November" (which everybody has done for the YEARS I have been at this work place!)

- "Giving a high level of discount for certain transactions during November" (which is what I had discussed about giving me £4 off a cod and chips.... after the assistant manager and other colleagues have multiple times given free drinks to people they know, family or friends)

Tomorrow at 10:15am my partner is going to an investigatory meeting. I am allowed to attend the meeting, but I can't answer questions on his behalf. I know you can only take my word for it, but please know that he has been in the dark about this situation for months. Imagine going into a work place with the feeling of being watched? Your colleagues acting particularly off with you and you just have no idea as to why? He is one of the sweetest, trustworthy, kind individuals I have ever met in my life - which may to some sound biased, but it's the truth. He doesn't deserve what is happening to him.

He has had barely any hours over these past months because they have week by week taken them away from him because they think it's him... what do we do? what can I do? what can he do? He has been the longest person to work at this workplace, all other colleagues have come after him, and he is being treated like this.

We are both on the breadline too, after the assistant manager promised me hours during the winter and gave me only 9 hours a week (they say this is only word of mouth promise and nothing was written down, my fault for trusting him). They did the same to my partner, after we both busted our butts for this place over the summer.

I think it is important to also note, that the assistant manager has told other colleagues about some very personal things about myself. I couldn't make it to work for a day about a month ago now, because I was in hospital the night before. However, when I came back to work the following week, everybody knew about my situation and said the assistant manager had told them. When I asked him about this, he said he was sorry and that a few people overheard him discussing the matter with our manager whilst behind the bar. Discussing MY matter behind the bar for all to hear?! Maybe there is something I can do about that??

I think personally that it does come down to this assistant manager causing problems - and my colleague feels the same.

With all the information I have given - there must be some advice you guys can give me on this, I beg! It surely cannot be one thing for one person and then another for another in regards to the rules. What do we do?

Again, any advice and guidance will be thoroughly appreciated at this time. He is not the type of person to deserve this - ever. Please give us some help and things to add to our notes!

xxx

This is a popular misconception I'm afraid. The cannot discriminate between employees on any of the few legally protected grounds (e.g race, gender, religion etc) but otherwise there is no obligation to treat everybody the same.

The vast majority of what you have written is irrelevant (number or hours / breadline etc) but you have not said how long he has been employed. If less than two years this largely becomes moot as he would have no protection against unfair dismissal (again apart from certain types of discrimination).

All he can do is tell the truth. There is no legal right to be accompanied at an investigation meeting. At a disciplinary meeting he has the right to a work colleague or trades union representative.

emily.wild

Undervalued wrote: »

This is a popular misconception I'm afraid. The cannot discriminate between employees on any of the few legally protected grounds (e.g race, gender, religion etc) but otherwise there is no obligation to treat everybody the same.

The vast majority of what you have written is irrelevant (number or hours / breadline etc) but you have not said how long he has been employed. If less than two years this largely becomes moot as he would have no protection against unfair dismissal (again apart from certain types of discrimination).

All he can do is tell the truth. There is no legal right to be accompanied at an investigation meeting. At a disciplinary meeting he has the right to a work colleague or trades union representative.

Hi,

Thankyou for this. He has worked at the workplace for just over 3 years. I understand there is no legal right - he has asked me to go with him, but he wants me to ask them any question that may come to mind during the meeting. Is this allowed?

gwynlas

How long as he worked there?
Does the comppamy have a written Disciplinary Procedure? It would appear so due to use of formal terms.
What the assistant manager does is between him and management. two wrongs do not make a right. He should probably not mention it as it makes management look stupid
An investigatory meeting should be just that looking at circumstances and then meeting again for outcome of investigation.
Unless you have both have strong reasons to want to remain there then you are probably better off looking for other jobs, you can sight insufficient hours as reasons for leaving.
Catering/hospitality industry is notorius for poor staff treatment and conditions of service.

Undervalued

emily.wild wrote: »

Hi,

Thankyou for this. He has worked at the workplace for just over 3 years. I understand there is no legal right - he has asked me to go with him, but he wants me to ask them any question that may come to mind during the meeting. Is this allowed?

Only if the employer chooses to allow it, it is totally up to them. Given that there is no legal right for you to be there, except with the employer's permission, they may be willing or they could ask you to leave at any point.

With three years employment he has some legal protection against unfair dismissal.

If the matter progresses to a disciplinary hearing at a later date then he does have the right to be accompanied by a work colleague of his choice or a trades union rep. A disciplinary meeting should be held fairly and the easiest way for them to do that is to follow the ACAS guidelines. Note however that there are no longer statutory procedures that must be followed to the letter. An alternative process could still be fair.

Blatchford

emily.wild wrote: »

Hi,

Thankyou for this. He has worked at the workplace for just over 3 years. I understand there is no legal right - he has asked me to go with him, but he wants me to ask them any question that may come to mind during the meeting. Is this allowed?

As you technically aren't allowed to accompany him anyway, then if they let you the employer sets the rules as to what you can and cannot do. I'd also probably add that you are possibly the last person who should be in there because you have not a shred of impartiality and even if he was a serial thief you wouldn't see it or accept it. They have decided they have grounds to question him (and honestly, whatever you say, based on your version of events here, they DO have cause to question him) - you say they are not approaching it impartially and maybe they aren't, but neither are you.

I concur that regardless of what others may do, other peoples wrongdoing is not a defence against anything, and won't help him. If people use other peoples till sign in then that may be a factor to point out, but it doesn't make him doing it right, and nor does it actually make it logical - how does using someone else's rather than your own make it easier or faster?

You should also be aware that the test of "guilt" in employment terms is less rigorous than that applied in a criminal court. The test is whether the employer can reach a reasonable belief that he has done what he is accused of; and whether the sanction applied is one that a reasonable employer might apply. So, effectively, even with two years service, there appears to be grounds to argue (again, I am not saying it is true, just putting the neutral position) that he has broken procedures, that money has gone missing on more than one occasion when he has been "in the picture", and that he has deliberately misapplied discounts (which is a form of theft). The worst case scenario here is clear - provided they follow a legally fair process, based on the bare bones of what you have said it would be possible, if they are so inclined, to fairly dismiss him; and to defend such a dismissal as fair and reasonable. That does not mean they will. It does mean they could.

I think you need to ask for more advice after the meeting when there will be more information as to their approach.

TBagpuss

Well, as it is an investigation meeting, not a disciplinary one, they don't have to allow you to accompany him at all, and it would be up to them whether they let you ask questions or make comments. If the meting were a disciplinary one then as his companion, the things you would be allowed to do would be:
"-take notes on your behalf
- present your case
-sum up your case
-talk things over with you during the hearing"

It sounds as though there are a number of issues:
1. They are trying to trace money missing from the till / tips. Assuming your partner hasn't taken this, he should simply tell the truth, explain that he hasn't taken any money or been aware of anyone else fdoing so.
2. Using someone ele's number. - it sounds as though he has done this but that it was common practice at bus y tim (why? Does it save time?) Again, probably best yo say that it has happened on ocassion, that he has also freqently witnessed others doing the same and (if it is true) he could also mention if he has ever done it in front of a manager without them saying anythign to him or correcting it in the moment.
3. giving you a discount whichyou should not have had.Again, it may be appropriate to be honest and admit to havingdone this on a single, isolated ocassion. Was there a reason? If so, what was it? Accusing others is n't always a good idea but if he thinks the person conducting the investigation may not be aware of what goes on it may be relevent to mention that others do the same to a much greater extent.

But as said above, unless the difference is because of a protected characteristic such as race, gender or disability then the employer is allwoed to treat different people differently - not least because it enables them to be flexible and take into account thingssuch as a person's over all performance, attitude etc. Unfortunatelty it can also mean that manager or emplyer can treat some pople more favourably for personal reasons but that , while it may not be good management, isn't illegal.

Marcon

If you're posting under your real name, you might want to delete this thread and re-post (copy the text of your question first so you don't have to type it again!).

yksi

The worst part of this thread is that I believe you 100% because all of those things happened where I used to work.

Everyone used everyone else's login because it's such a palaver to keep changing. Everyone shared the same till. The money in the till was never correct at the end of the day and there was no way to know why or who. There was an employee we think stole tips, but no way to prove it. There was one who gave special prices to some customers, and another one who undercharged on purpose, and another who got expensive lunches free. And a manager who gave out hours to the people they liked the best, and gave fewer to people they didn't like, including one who didn't get any and was left wondering if they had been sacked for no reason.

You are currently looking for legal defenses here for your partner, but it's pointless. This is a toxic workplace. Even if he successfully avoids punishment, he won't be trusted and neither of you will be comfortable continuing to work there. You already know it's a rubbish place to work with poor guidelines and rules, and people are treated like they are disposable. (I'm going to hazard a guess here, I guess you don't get the breaks you're legally entitled to either? Or the required 11 hours break between shifts? Me neither.)

Look for another job - both of you - and get out before they even have the chance to make their "decision". Make sure that those at the top know why you left.

kmb500

I would suggest having a different colleague attend the meeting for him. If you go with him they will just think you're biased (because you are). If they see that another colleague is happy to support/defend him, it might help :-)

TELLIT01

If things like using another persons ID is pretty much standard practice, and he can back up that claim, he needs to say so as it would be a simple statement of fact.
Giving overly generous discounts to friends and family members isn't OK even if he knows that others have done the same. It is effectively stealing from the business.
I would strongly advise against saying that the pair of you are in financial difficulties as all that will do is add to the potential reasons for financial irregularities at work.
Your viewpoint with the pre-counted tips is that a trap was set, I'm sure management's viewpoint is that they were trying to see if there was any basis for concerns about your partner's money management at work.