House has been transferred between generations 'informally' - next steps?

Bossypants

Hi all - question on behalf of my neighbours who are not IT savvy. It's a bit of a weird and convoluted situation, so I will try to make it as clear as possible.

My neighbour's mother owned a house outright. She then moved in with another relative when she could no longer maintain it, and her son (my neighbour's brother) was invited to move into it with his family. They lived there for 40 years, during which time the mother died. They continued to live there after the mother died, even though the house was never formally passed to them, since it was 'understood' by the family that the mother had given the house to her son. The son and his wife died some 15 years ago, leaving behind two middle-aged sons, both of whom have mental health issues and struggle to live on their own. One son has been in the care of the council for some time already, while the other continued to live in the house until recently. Now he too has been taken into care, and the house is in very poor condition.

My neighbours (the sons' aunt and uncle and their only close relatives) would like to know if there is any possibility the house could be sold in order to provide for the needs of the sons, considering that the last known legal owner was their grandmother. They have been to the house and searched it for anything in the way of deeds or other paperwork, but found nothing. The house is obviously not on the LR.

Who/where would be the next port of call for this?

diego_94

I wouldn't of thought this was possible. At the time of death of either party,(The mother or the son) the deceased estate would of gone though probate. This would of taken into account whom the property was registered with, and distributed it accordingly to the will if there was one.

However with the mother and now the son sadly no longer with us, it will be very difficult to find out what actually happened. As a start I would download the land registry entry for the property to see who is the registered owner.

getmore4less

Perfectly reasonable this could be the scenario.

There is no automatic administration(probate) of estates someone has to do it and there is often no incentive if access to all the assets is already happening.

Bossypants

diego_94 wrote: »

I wouldn't of thought this was possible. At the time of death of either party,(The mother or the son) the deceased estate would of gone though probate. This would of taken into account whom the property was registered with, and distributed it accordingly to the will if there was one.

However with the mother and now the son sadly no longer with us, it will be very difficult to find out what actually happened. As a start I would download the land registry entry for the property to see who is the registered owner.

Yes I would agree, but unfortunately, this is all they know/have been able to find out. The area the house is in was very rural at the time of the transfer and subsequent death of the mother, and things weren't always done strictly by the book. The property does not appear on the Land Registry.

I'm not expecting anyone here to know the actual answer, just pointing them in the right direction for who to contact would be a big help.

diego_94

There must be something in the land registry records, someone must own the land.

princeofpounds

I wouldn't of thought this was possible.

Yes it may well be.

As a start I would download the land registry entry for the property to see who is the registered owner.

The property is not registered, as it has not transacted since registration was compulsory.

OP - I would imagine the property would still be part of the estate of the grandmother, at least in theory. Assuming there are/were no wills, then the rules of intestacy would apply, and it probably would go down to the grandsons.

We cannot be sure however, because we don't know if there were wills or not, nor of the exact family tree.

Given the apparent lack of any documentation, it may be that an adverse possession type of application is easier than the inheritance route. It depends on the circumstances.

Then you get onto the problem of the capacity of the grandsons, and who may act as their trustee in the case of lack of capacity. That may turn out to be more complex than the question of inheritance, and possibly open some cans of worms around benefits and care costs.

So you probably would need to find a firm of solicitors who have expertise in property law, inheritance law and law around mental health incapacity, and retain them to provide you advice on these areas and the best course of action.

princeofpounds

There must be something in the land registry records

No, not necessarily.

someone must own the land.

Correct

Slithery

diego_94 wrote: »

There must be something in the land registry records

False.

someone must own the land.

True.

If no-one has gone through the correct legal processes since compulsory registration was first introduced then the LR will have no record of it.

Sea_Shell

It's nice of you to try and research answers for your neighbours, but be careful not to get too entangled with "sorting it out".

xylophone

Is it the case that the grandmother died intestate?

If not, it may be that probate was obtained when she died (in around 1965)?

This could be checked.

https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

If she did die intestate, then presumably the rules relating to intestacy at the date of death would apply.

If the heirs were her children (your neighbour and his deceased sibling?), then it would seem likely that your neighbour himself has an interest in the property as do his two vulnerable nephews.

Your neighbours might start their research as above - they may well need to consult a solicitor.

https://www.step.org/members-centre

staffie1

Get a solicitor onto it. Lots of armchair solicitors on here. My advice is engage a real one.