misleading advertising?

dollythedog

Hi there, I am having a long-running dispute with my builder over work done on my garage which should have had BC approval, I accepted his estimate and allowed the work to start without applying because I asked my builder and he said it wasn't needed

he's done several jobs for me in the past like kitchen/bathroom/utility refits and always done a good job so I thought I could trust his advice

this is different as the garage isn't built to the same standards as the living parts of the house so it should have been insulated/damp/fireproofed, none of that was estimated for or included in the spec, which he designed himself, and it looks like he hasn't taken any of that into account in his design

on his website, it said 'Once all work is completed we will work closely with building control to ensure that your project meets all building regulations'

I've asked him to remove the parts of his work that won't pass BC and refund what I've paid him for doing it, he refuses to do that and says it was my decision to do the work

I pointed out what his website says, he didn't reply and it's now been changed to read 'Once all work is completed, where applicable we will work closely with building control to ensure that your project meets relevant building regulations.

is it fair to change advertising after the event to avoid doing what was promised when I accepted his estimate?

Browntoa

Due diligence on your part , a quick 5 minutes call to building control before starting work would have given you a definitive answer

Doozergirl

It doesn't matter that he's changed what is on the website. It still would have applied to you. A garage conversion is qualifying work. He clearly doesn't know what he's talking about if he thinks they get involved 'when completed'. It's a process that starts before work does.

Building regulations are the responsibility of the homeowner. That said, I guess you could contact your local trading standards and see what they say.

If he didn't spec the upgrades that would meet building regulations then you haven't paid for them either. How much did this 'garage conversion' cost?

It's all very well trusting one person to do everything for you, but this guy sounds more like a Handyman than a builder who is used to larger projects and would take a small conversion, the specification required, and dealing with building control, in their stride. It doesn't sound like you've specified or paid for a proper conversion, or that you did any kind of homework beforehand either.

dollythedog

Doozergirl wrote: »

It doesn't matter that he's changed what is on the website. It still would have applied to you. A garage conversion is qualifying work. He clearly doesn't know what he's talking about if he thinks they get involved 'when completed'. It's a process that starts before work does.

Building regulations are the responsibility of the homeowner. That said, I guess you could contact your local trading standards and see what they say.

If he didn't spec the upgrades that would meet building regulations then you haven't paid for them either. How much did this 'garage conversion' cost?

It's all very well trusting one person to do everything for you, but this guy sounds more like a Handyman than a builder who is used to larger projects and would take a small conversion, the specification required, and dealing with building control, in their stride. It doesn't sound like you've specified or paid for a proper conversion, or that you did any kind of homework beforehand either.

everything you say is absolutely right, as I've found out in the 6 weeks arguing, with lots of helpful advice from a different forum on building

I believed that by agreeing with the builder in advance that no approval was required, he was taking responsibility and I've since contacted BC with a view to regularising, he hasn't helped me at all and I'm struggling with different areas of law I know nothing about

this post was specific to the fact that he appears to have changed his advertising after I brought it to his attention which, to me, suggests he does realise something was wrong

Trading Standards pass everything straight to Citizens Advice, this is what they said:

1. was I entitled to rely on the advice he gave me, namely that neither planning permission nor building control approval were needed?
"Yes, as you would rely on the trader service being carried out with reasonable care and skill."

2. should I have to pay again to have the work removed?
"Under supply and goods and services- works & materials; the remedies are for repair or replacement that should be provided free of charge, within a reasonable time, and not cause significant inconvenience. There is no set limit for number of repairs or replacements."

3. do I have any right to a refund of the monies already paid?
"You may be able to seek damages from the trader; damages could be for a monetary amount you feel is reasonable to compensate for the breach and ultimately needs to be negotiated between yourself and the trader."

Doozergirl

I don't think the change of website details are relevant, because what he says now is essentially the same. In your case, meeting the Building Regulations WAS applicable and WAS relevant. It still is.

Take him to the small claims court. That's what the CAB are suggesting.

dollythedog

Doozergirl wrote: »

I don't think the change of website details are relevant, because what he says now is essentially the same. In your case, meeting the Building Regulations WAS applicable and WAS relevant. It still is.

Take him to the small claims court. That's what the CAB are suggesting.

ok, thanks for that, it will be last resort and hope to avoid if I can get resolution via an ADR

thanks also very much for pointing out the relevance of the 'once all work is completed' part, it does imply that BC aren't involved till the end of the work and as you very rightly say, and which to my cost I now know, BC should be involved from the very start, I did involve them the minute I found out I should have done

had I used an architect/designer they would doubtless have guided me correctly but in my ignorance, tarting up a garage didn't seem to need that and my builder took responsibility for design

would be bad enough if he'd made an assumption that I knew what I should do, but I did ask him very explicitly and he did tell me equally explicitly BC approval wasn't needed, he said a utility space is exempt because it isn't habitable, BC say it's not exempt because it's heated, he also didn't know that a window inserted into a new opening in brickwork requires approval, garage or not, and told me so

having found out he was wrong that's in process of regularisation, the application went at the weekend

the rest of the project is beyond my means to regularise so I'm trying to get the space put back as a plain old garage

one lives & learns and will be much more careful!

Mistral001

This is quite a common situation and builders when they are faced with the problem will use the defence that they are builders and not designers even though they may give lots of advice during the completion of a job that is usually the remit of the building designer. If the job was called a "design and build" job, then the OP might be able to argue that the builder was responsible for advising on the Building Control aspects of the job.

The builder has advertised that he will work with Building Control. Working with Building Control is nothing more than any builder would do. The bit about doing it once the job is completed, is a little puzzling. Building Control are usually involved in a job right through the design and construction and not just at the end of the job.

I would seek advice from a lawyer. Construction law is not the same as general consumer law and often throws up surprises to people who are not used to it.

dollythedog

Mistral001 wrote: »

I would seek advice from a lawyer. Construction law is not the same as general consumer law and often throws up surprises to people who are not used to it.

you are also quite right

without going into too much boring detail, I had a trust-based relationship with the builder for 12 years, he did several 'handyman' interior refit works for me and I did his accounts for 6 years in a position of absolute trust & responsibility

I felt I could rely on his professional expertise in the same way as he did (successfully) on mine, I judged that wrongly

I am seeing a solicitor on Friday with expertise in building work & dispute resolution, as I write I'm drawing up a timeline to put the documentation in order, I don't know what else to do

grumbler

I am sorry if it's a stupid question, but does a garage really have to be insulated and dampproofed?

dollythedog

well I didn't think it was a stupid question but my local authority did!

I wanted a radiator, tapped off the house system which is just the other side of the wall, that comes under Part L1B of 2010 Building Regulations and then they class it as a conversion and you need to insulate, fire/damp proof the lot

to do that, I'd have to raise the garage floor to fit the insulation in, then it can't be a garage any more because building regs say you have to have a drop of at least 100mm (I think) to contain fuel spills as a fire precaution and it would cost thousands of pounds more than the builder's price, you have to insulate walls, ceiling & fireproof it all because I was keeping the front part for storage and I might have stored fuel in there, it all does make sense if anyone explains it but hard to work it out yourself as an amateur when an experienced builder you trusted has told you different

as @Browntoa said, I should have carried out due diligence, sad when you can't trust anyone any more

so to keep it as a garage I have to have the radiator taken out

6 weeks ago I knew diddly-squat about building regs, I trusted that to my builder, BAD MISTAKE!!!!!

the good news is I heard late this afternoon that the Building Control Inspector will visit tomorrow to assess the window I had put in, you can have a window in a garage but it has to be approved

builder didn't know that either, I have no problem with paying them to approve it, I just needed someone to tell me, I am a silly woman aren't I?

chrisw

I'm not entirely sure what you want the end use to be - a habitable living space or a workshop/storage type area.

If it's the latter, I suspect what some people may do is have the radiator taken out and the pipes capped off ahead of the inspection.

Once the work has been inspected, they might put the radiator back on again, assuming they were happy in the knowledge that the insulation may not be up to scratch.

They would probably then take the radiator out again should they ever consider selling the house.