neighbour noise increase due to their conversion

Retired_Mortgage_Adviser

I have a daughter who rents a matchbox sized flat in one of those ubiquitous new-build blocks with paper thin walls and very poor sound insulation. I dread it when I occasionally get called for babysitting duty. You can hear everything happening in all the flats that it shares walls/floors/ceilings with!

I completely empathise with your situation, but unfortunately there doesn't appear to be anything that you can "force" your neighbours to do. All the activities you have described appear to be those made as part of normal living and mostly not early mornings or late night.

Other than considering sound insulation inside your property (a lot of money for very little gain and unlikely that HA will plump for it), I would suggest that the best course of action would be to complain to the HA and see what they say. (assuming that you rent)

Is it at all possible that they give you an option of a different property?

Scott016973

RelievedSheff wrote: »

There will have been planning notices displayed in the locality and posted to all neighbours prior to the works being started.

You could try getting your house association to carry out some sound proofing works but they are unlikely to agree to this.

Can you move furniture around in your bedroom to get where you sleep away from the party wall or even swap living and bedroom space to move away from the sound source?

We found moving our bed off the party wall and across the room helped a bit with the noise. Didn't solve the problem but helped a little.

I didn't see any notices or info. I don't have the best of HA's so I doubt they would bother.

I don't sleep against the party wall. My bed is against my kitchen wall.
Unfortunately changing rooms around isn't an option. My bedroom isn't big enough to make into a living room. Plus, both are set up for their purpose.

Scott016973

Socajam wrote: »

If you can hear them, obviously they would be able to hear you too, so I would leave my music on loud and go away for a day or two.
On your return when they complain, just say: welcome to my world, this is what I have to live with daily since your renovation.

I have thought of this on many occasions, but that would impact my upstairs neighbour negatively and that isn't fair. If I could arrange it whilst she was away, I would.

Scott016973

rach_k wrote: »

So your flat used to be a house like theirs but has been split into two flats?

It sounds to me like the problem is actually your flat. If next door's ground floor has contained the living areas since the 1850s, it was a bad idea for whoever converted your flat to put a bedroom there. You can't expect a house to suddenly stop using their living areas for living because next door decides to put a bedroom on the ground floor. I understand that they have recently increased the noise level, but if it's just fairly normal family living you are maybe just lucky they were quieter before.

Can you raise this with your housing association?

I see your point, but the reason it was quieter before was because their downstairs was individual rooms, with walls between them. Now it is one huge hollowed out space. It's like a soundbox. They have changed the acoustics of their home.

Scott016973

Retired_Mortgage_Adviser wrote: »

I have a daughter who rents a matchbox sized flat in one of those ubiquitous new-build blocks with paper thin walls and very poor sound insulation. I dread it when I occasionally get called for babysitting duty. You can hear everything happening in all the flats that it shares walls/floors/ceilings with!

I completely empathise with your situation, but unfortunately there doesn't appear to be anything that you can "force" your neighbours to do. All the activities you have described appear to be those made as part of normal living and mostly not early mornings or late night.

Other than considering sound insulation inside your property (a lot of money for very little gain and unlikely that HA will plump for it), I would suggest that the best course of action would be to complain to the HA and see what they say. (assuming that you rent)

Is it at all possible that they give you an option of a different property?

I do rent, yes. I have lived here very happily for almost 10years without any issue or reason to complain about noise. This has only happened since their making their living area open plan. I was moved around 10 years ago because I had abusive neighbours and living here has been a change of life for me. So moving home is not a prospect I want to go through. I suppose I am way too reasonable as a person and can't understand why they wouldn't want soundproofing during their re-vamping...if it were me, I would want to be considerate plus not want my neighbours to hear everything I say or do.

jamesperrett

RelievedSheff wrote: »

There will have been planning notices displayed in the locality and posted to all neighbours prior to the works being started.

It could possibly have been done under the permitted development rules so no planning notices needed. I get the impression that the main problem is the changed layout rather than the extension. It would be possible to improve the soundproofing in the bedroom but you would need to use a specialist rather than a general builder as, in my experience, most builders will take shortcuts which will totally mess up the soundproofing (it only takes one screw in the wrong place to do this). It also wouldn't be cheap.

Davesnave

RelievedSheff wrote: »

There will have been planning notices displayed in the locality and posted to all neighbours prior to the works being started.

This is no longer true. Whether it was ever a cast iron certainty, I can't say, but I've had experience pre and post austerity of it not happening.

Around 2002, it happened when a neighbour wanted to do a loft conversion with a window overlooking our garden. I remember, because it was the first planning application I'd seen on-line and I decided to have a bit of fun with the response through the same channel.

Then, in 2004, I missed a notice about new builds that directly affected a property I was managing. It was posted in a prominent place....on a lamp post in a different road! No letter at all. When I found out, I complained to the council, who were very helpful, but they insisted they'd fulfilled their obligations, also posting in the local paper. I didn't live there so I was not likely to see that.

Roll on to 2009, when we submitted plans to for a commercial polytunnel, followed by others to extend and re-model our house in 2012 and 2013. In the case of the polytunnel, the owner of the house next door was informed, but after that they heard nothing from the council. In each case, we were sent a notice to display ourselves 'in a prominent position.' It wasn't even laminated, though to survive for the 21 days or whatever they required it displayed, it had to be.

So, it seems the responsibility to display notices may be passed to the applicant and the requirement to inform neighbours by letter is just a matter of courtesy. Individual councils probably follow different practices within those broad rules.

Davesnave

jamesperrett wrote: »

It would be possible to improve the soundproofing in the bedroom but you would need to use a specialist rather than a general builder as, in my experience, most builders will take shortcuts which will totally mess up the soundproofing (it only takes one screw in the wrong place to do this). It also wouldn't be cheap.

Yes, I have experience of this too. It's not so much short cuts as a lack of knowledge of the principles involved, which, to be fair, goes beyond what most people expect from a builder. It's not just a matter of stuffing some insulation in!

AdrianC

Scott016973 wrote: »

I didn't see any notices or info.

It's a legal requirement for the local authority to post planning notices outside the property. It's not a legal requirement for them to post them directly to adjoining properties, however.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/consultation-and-pre-decision-matters#statutory-publicity-requirements

Would you have noticed an A4 laminated notice attached to their gate or a wall or a tree, on the boundary to the public footpath or near it?

If they failed in that, then the planning app could have had to be resubmitted. But once the app is approved and especially once the work is done, there's no way on this earth that a minor procedural error would make the slightest difference at all. They certainly wouldn't be required to remove the extension or make substantial internal changes.

I don't think any objection from you would have made a lot of difference, either.

As has been said - is this simply an issue of your property being an unusual layout, making you more susceptible to perfectly normal domestic sound?

Installing acoustic insulation on your side of the wall is just as possible and feasible as it is on theirs. There's no real difference. There are umpteen suppliers and products. Will they all be 100% effective? No. Do you need 100% effectiveness? No. Any benefit is a benefit, and it's all about where you draw the lines on cost-benefit.