Labour's £113,000 tax rise for people on £80k

lisyloo

Prism wrote: »

Its a shame really. I would happily pay 10% more tax if I got better services but not enough people agree it seems. I doubt any party would get in if they were up front about the required increased tax burden.

I don’t think many “working class” workers in manual jobs with a family would be able to afford 10% more tax.
I mean forklift drivers, Royal Mail workers, bus drivers kind of jobs.

I also think there’s an issue with the “if I got better services” bit.
Many people don’t trust that the money would go directly into the better services they think they want as an example they might not want it spent of rehabilitation of offenders or what they deem to be benefit scroungers or perhaps people coming into the country I.e. doesn’t meet their personal “deserving cause” judgement.
This is what I find when talking to friends and family ( and if I ruled out everyone with any offensive views I’d be Billy no mates).

nigelbb

lisyloo wrote: »

I don’t think many “working class” workers in manual jobs with a family would be able to afford 10% more tax.
I mean forklift drivers, Royal Mail workers, bus drivers kind of jobs.

I also think there’s an issue with the “if I got better services” bit.
Many people don’t trust that the money would go directly into the better services they think they want as an example they might not want it spent of rehabilitation of offenders or what they deem to be benefit scroungers or perhaps people coming into the country I.e. doesn’t meet their personal “deserving cause” judgement.
This is what I find when talking to friends and family ( and if I ruled out everyone with any offensive views I’d be Billy no mates).

Higher earners can easily pay more. I’m in the top 3% of earners & paid over £30K in income tax last year. I have a comfortable standard of living that wouldn’t be noticeably affected if I had to pay 10% extra income tax & my take home pay was reduced by £60/week. This would be even more true of those who earn more than me.

lisyloo

nigelbb wrote: »

Higher earners can easily pay more. I’m in the top 3% of earners & paid over £30K in income tax last year. I have a comfortable standard of living that wouldn’t be noticeably affected if I had to pay 10% extra income tax & my take home pay was reduced by £60/week. This would be even more true of those who earn more than me.

Move on to the second part of my response then.
I know plenty who don’t want to as they don’t want to help those whom they deem are undeserving.

nigelbb

lisyloo wrote: »

Move on to the second part of my response then.
I know plenty who don’t want to as they don’t want to help those whom they deem are undeserving.

It’s not a question of being mean minded & selfish & demonising the “undeserving” it’s about paying for better services for everybody whether it’s schools, roads, NHS, social care, libraries etc It’s about making a proper contribution to society if you are fortunate.

lisyloo

nigelbb wrote: »

It’s not a question of being mean minded & selfish & demonising the “undeserving” it’s about paying for better services for everybody whether it’s schools, roads, NHS, social care, libraries etc It’s about making a proper contribution to society if you are fortunate.

My friends (and some posters on here) would claim they’ve worked hard all their lives and have not been particularly fortunate apart from good health (some from working class Poor backgrounds and not privileged).

They have an issue with people who choose not to work.

This isn’t isolated to a few of my friends (I don’t believe). I think it’s the majority view and why were going to get a Tory majority.
If it was just a few of my friends you could write it off but I’m afraid it’s a mainstream view (it’s doesnt reflect mine).

jimi_man

lisyloo wrote: »

My friends (and some posters on here) would claim they’ve worked hard all their lives and have not been particularly fortunate apart from good health (some from working class Poor backgrounds and not privileged).

They have an issue with people who choose not to work.

This isn’t isolated to a few of my friends (I don’t believe). I think it’s the majority view and why were going to get a Tory majority.
If it was just a few of my friends you could write it off but I’m afraid it’s a mainstream view (it’s doesnt reflect mine).

I think the point that nigelbb is making is that people in the upper echelons of the earnings cohort, shoulder the responsibility rather than those who you are describing.

lisyloo

jimi_man wrote: »

I think the point that nigelbb is making is that people in the upper echelons of the earnings cohort, shoulder the responsibility rather than those who you are describing.

They already do.

it’s a question of the extent to which they should be expected to shoulder it without disincentivizing them to the point they leave the country or it’s not worth carrying on being a GP or a landlord

If well off landlords decide to finish being landlords it will be tenants who will be worst off not the ex-landlords for whom it will simply be an asset/business reallocation exercise.

It can be counter productive e.g. LTA rules means some dentists and doctors will retire early and this is not good for the country, so even removing the moral obligation it still needs to be done sensibly.

Personally my view is that we have some room for the well off to contribute more, but the choices have moved to the right and left with nothing moderate in between.

Tomorrow we’ll know what kind of society the majority have chosen.

My prediction is that the “mean minded and selfish” (not my words) will win the day.

ukcarper

lisyloo wrote: »

Tomorrow we’ll know what kind of society the majority have chosen.

My prediction is that the “mean minded and selfish” (not my words) will win the day.

If they do, could it have been avoided if we had a more realistic Labour Party who concentrated on the main problems that face us rather than throwing money at everything, many of which are unnecessary and ideologically driven.

lisyloo

ukcarper wrote: »

If they do, could it have been avoided if we had a more realistic Labour Party who concentrated on the main problems that face us rather than throwing money at everything, many of which are unnecessary and ideologically driven.

IMO yes.
But going too far to the left labour have lost some moderates (and to a lesser extent the tories too).

ukcarper

lisyloo wrote: »

IMO yes.
But going too far to the left labour have lost some moderates (and to a lesser extent the tories too).

Some I would say it's a substantial number, their position on brexit is also costing them votes as is Tories.