Enduring Power of Attorney?

Cacran

Does anyone have any knowledge of EPA?
My father, who is still capable of dealing with his own affairs, has an EPA which was completed a number of years ago.
It shows My brother and me, jointly to be his attorney, should it ever be required.
My brother has moved abroad.
Today, my father showed me a letter he had received from the bank.
It was addressed to my dad, c/o my brother, to my dads address.
It showed the account number and sort code.
The wording is as followed:-
Dear (my brother)
In relation to the account you have access to as a Power of Attorney/Court of Protection can you please confirm your personal details and contact number on the attached form so we can update our systems for our ongoing bank checks to take place.
Please return this in the envelope provided at your earliest convenience.
If you have any questions about this letter please contact on on xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On contacting them, they said that they would need to speak to my brother who would have to give a password.
Is my brother duping my Father?????

Dox

No idea. Have you asked your brother for an explanation before jumping to conclusions? Did your father authorise him to act using the EPA (it can be done, even where somewhere still has all their faculties).

If your father is concerned, he can always cancel and make a new (Lasting) Power of Attorney while he has capacity to do so: https://www.gov.uk/use-or-cancel-an-enduring-power-of-attorney

Cacran

Dox wrote: »

No idea. Have you asked your brother for an explanation before jumping to conclusions? Did your father authorise him to act using the EPA (it can be done, even where somewhere still has all their faculties).

If your father is concerned, he can always cancel and make a new (Lasting) Power of Attorney while he has capacity to do so: https://www.gov.uk/use-or-cancel-an-enduring-power-of-attorney

Not asked my brother to explain because I want to get more information, if possible. It could be innocent and would not want to cause a rift in the family.
My father would never authorise my brother to act for him. I know that for certain.

cherry76

Cacran wrote: »

Not asked my brother to explain because I want to get more information, if possible. It could be innocent and would not want to cause a rift in the family.
My father would never authorise my brother to act for him. I know that for certain.

I am familiar with enduring power of attorney. I have one created years ago giving my mother authority to manage my finances whilst I was travelling abroad. She had to register it with the bank with id and they took a copy. I have still leave her as attorney as I travel a lot and she can deal with any query re my bank account. The letter from the bank is usually addressed to me with mothers name as attorney. Is the original enduring poa still with your father? Are you sure your father did not take it to be registered to the bank? You will need to confirm with your father and find out who registered it? My understandings once a power of attorney is created the donor must have given authority to the attorney to act now or later. Hope this helps.

cherry76

Reading your post again you said your brother and yourself to act jointly. With jointly you have to act together. I think you will need to ask your brother.

cherry76

Use an enduring power of attorney
While you still have mental capacity you can allow your attorney to use an EPA to help manage your finances.

You or your attorney will need to show signed copies of your EPA to banks and financial providers so your attorney can manage your accounts.

Cacran

cherry76 wrote: »

Use an enduring power of attorney
While you still have mental capacity you can allow your attorney to use an EPA to help manage your finances.

You or your attorney will need to show signed copies of your EPA to banks and financial providers so your attorney can manage your accounts.

It is my father who has the bank account. Myself and my brother have to act together when it is decided that Enduring Power of Attorney should come into force. The papers state 'Jointly'

My father would not go to his bank at the request of my brother. My brother went to live in Spain at the beginning of October. I know he has made a new Will as he asked my daughter to be Executor on it.

It seems a coincidence that, at this same point in time, my father got a letter from his bank, showing that it was C/O my brother. The letter wants my dad to give details of the attorney.

My brother is aware that both of us have to agree with each other and sign. We have spoken about the possible awkwardness of this as we have lived a long way from each other for the past three years. Neither of us have any dealings with Dads finances at present. He does it himself. He was puzzled by the letter.

I am loath to ask my brother what he is doing. Before doing so, I want to know my rights.

Keep_pedalling

Cacran wrote: »

It is my father who has the bank account. Myself and my brother have to act together when it is decided that Enduring Power of Attorney should come into force. The papers state 'Jointly'

My father would not go to his bank at the request of my brother. My brother went to live in Spain at the beginning of October. I know he has made a new Will as he asked my daughter to be Executor on it.

It seems a coincidence that, at this same point in time, my father got a letter from his bank, showing that it was C/O my brother. The letter wants my dad to give details of the attorney.

My brother is aware that both of us have to agree with each other and sign. We have spoken about the possible awkwardness of this as we have lived a long way from each other for the past three years. Neither of us have any dealings with Dads finances at present. He does it himself. He was puzzled by the letter.

I am loath to ask my brother what he is doing. Before doing so, I want to know my rights.

Whatever started this your father needs to do is tell the bank that he No longer wishes his son to act as his attorney.

He really should make a new LPA to replace this, but if he does I do not recommend making the 2 of you act jointly as this can lead to major issues if you are in disagreement or one of you loses the ability to act. Far better to be able to act jointly and severally or to have one act solely with the other as a back up attorney. The latter would make more sense as your brother no longer lives in the country.

Malthusian

Cacran wrote: »

My father would never authorise my brother to act for him. I know that for certain.

That doesn't make any sense as if he named your brother on the EPoA he did exactly that.

If he still has capacity he should do new Lasting Powers of Attorney as soon as possible, as per Keep pedalling's suggestions. LPoAs which insist the attorneys act jointly and not jointly and severally are a very bad idea.

If he doesn't trust your brother to do the right thing without oversight from you, he shouldn't have appointed him at all. When he redoes his EPoA he should appoint someone else whom he does trust alongside you, either acting jointly and severally or as replacement attorney.

I am loath to ask my brother what he is doing. Before doing so, I want to know my rights.

You have an inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

As for rights relevant to this case, at this stage all we can say is that your father has the right to remove your brother as attorney, and to countermand anything your brother managed to do to his account. You have very few rights because it's not practical to get the agreement of the other attorney, and your dad played a rather cruel practical joke on you by making the power of attorney joint instead of joint and several. You do have the right to ask your brother if he has contacted the bank. A non-accusatory "Dad's had a letter from his bank about Power of Attorney, do you know anything about this?" will do.

If he is concerned that his bank account may have been tampered with he should at least ring them up and check that his balance is about what he would expect it to be.

Manxman_in_exile

As suggested above your dad needs to do a new power of attorney.


Sorry if I've got this wrong, but are you saying your dad's bank won't tell him why they're sending this letter to your brother (copy to your dad)? It's your dad's bank account so I don't understand why they can't (or won't) tell him. They must owe a duty to your father - he's their client, not your brother.

cherry76

Very good advice from Malthusian. Enduring poa has since 1st October 2007 been replaced by lasting poa. With enduring poa it has to be registered when the donor loses mental capacity. If both attorneys are to act jointly I do not think you should be concerned as your brother cannot do anything without your agreement. With jointly and severally your father must have complete trust with the attorneys as they can act on their own. My mum registered my poa with two banks. The letter is always addressed with my name and my mother. With another bank the letter is addressed with my name and attorney appointed in bracket. The bank should be able to answer your dad's query. I am sure there is a simple explanation. Just ask your brother casually