Advice Needed in Regards to Response to CCA Request

DogFace

Before making the request I did some research and, on the advice of others, I did not sign the bottom of the letter (I read that collection agencies had been known to scan that signature and copy it onto an agreement in order to make it enforceable).

I’ve just had my first reply from Moorcroft and, to be honest, it makes total sense and seems pretty reasonable (although frustrating because of the extra time it will now take)... but I thought I should check with you guys who know more than me...

Moorcroft wrote:

We acknowledge receipt of your letter requesting a copy of your credit agreement.

However, in line with our client’s procedures that we are obliged to follow and in order to ensure that your data remains protected, all credit agreement requests must be hand signed. Please find attached the original request that we received and we would ask that you hand sign the request and resend.

In addition our client also requires the £1.00 fee, please also find enclosed your £1.00 payment and we ask that your returned hand signed request also includes the cheque.

The account will be placed on hold until the [one calendar month from when the letter is dated] to allow you time to read and respond to this letter. If you require anything further please do not hesitate to contact us on the above telephone number, visit us at https://www.mdrl.co.uk, or mail us at customers@moorgroup.com

I guess my questions are:
1. Are they abiding by the law in the way they have responded (and essentially given themselves a one-month extension)?
2. Is this a fair/legal request or should I be wary about them “needing to see” my signature?
3. How should I proceed? (Obviously this massively depends on the answers to 1 and 2)

sourcrates

Hi,

This thing about a signature on a credit agreement, no were in the consumer credit act does it state a copy agreement provided in response to a CCA request, must bare a signature, it is simply not a requirement, a copy agreement is enforceable signed or unsigned, it makes no difference whatsoever.

There requirement for your signature will be for data Protection reasons, nothing more.
The statutory £1 fee should have been sent with the request, yes.

Sign it, obtain a cheque or a postal order, send that also.

You have to remember that the consumer credit act, as a document, is more for guidance, than anything else, giving themselves extra time to comply can only benefit you, not them, your account remains unenforceable until you receive what you have asked for.

fatbelly

I agree with the above except that an unfulfilled s77 cca request only renders the account unenforceable if it is a valid request, and the £1 is required by statute.

So although the lack of a signature does not stop the account going unenforceable, the lack of the £1 payment does.

I always get the request signed and enclose an uncrossed un-made out £1 postal order.

DogFace

Thank you both for your replies.

If the agreement doesn’t have to be signed, is there anything (other than morals and the risk of being found out) to stop them from just making up a new agreement? What differentiates each individual agreement that has to be found for them to make money?

Just to clarify, I did send the £1 postal order. That’s what they’re referring to when they say “please also find enclosed your £1.00 payment“. However, I made it payable to Moorcroft.. I’m not sure if they’re asking me to send a new one made payable to my original creditor when they say “ In addition our client also requires the £1.00 fee”? Are they just being awkward because I assume there’s no way for me to get a refund on that or change the name or anything? Perhaps they’re just sending it back incase I don’t pursue this any further, in which case I could just send that one back.

sourcrates

That’s the thing with CCA requests, people think the creditor must provide the actual original piece of signed paper, well the truth is they do not.
A reconstructed copy agreement is perfectly acceptable, as long as the details of the borrower and creditor are correct, the financial information is correct, and the copy is a legible one, ie, you can read it, then that is all evidence they have to provide.

They have returned your £1 payment as it should be made out to the original creditor, normally you would leave this blank, just send another one.

How old is this debt your asking for information on ?

fatbelly

DogFace wrote: »

Thank you both for your replies.

If the agreement doesn’t have to be signed, is there anything (other than morals and the risk of being found out) to stop them from just making up a new agreement? What differentiates each individual agreement that has to be found for them to make money?

Just to clarify, I did send the £1 postal order. That’s what they’re referring to when they say “please also find enclosed your £1.00 payment“. However, I made it payable to Moorcroft.. I’m not sure if they’re asking me to send a new one made payable to my original creditor when they say “ In addition our client also requires the £1.00 fee”? Are they just being awkward because I assume there’s no way for me to get a refund on that or change the name or anything? Perhaps they’re just sending it back incase I don’t pursue this any further, in which case I could just send that one back.

They probably are saying that the payment has to go to their client.

Yes they are allowed to reconstruct your credit agreement, and it doesn't have to have your signature on it. The guidance is in Conc13

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/13/1.html

DogFace

Ah ok, that makes sense. Basically, I will soon be in the position to make some settlement offers and I was advised to request these partly to put myself in a stronger negotiating position (should they not be able to find them).

The debts are about 8 years old.

sourcrates

DogFace wrote: »

Ah ok, that makes sense. Basically, I will soon be in the position to make some settlement offers and I was advised to request these partly to put myself in a stronger negotiating position (should they not be able to find them).

The debts are about 8 years old.

It’s a good strategy as most lenders only keep your information for 6 years, so if they cannot provide you with what they are supposed too, your bargaining position improves dramatically.

Anoneemoose

fatbelly wrote: »

They probably are saying that the payment has to go to their client.

Yes they are allowed to reconstruct your credit agreement, and it doesn't have to have your signature on it. The guidance is in Conc13

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/13/1.html

Sorry, OP, no further advice - I just find this board an interesting read.

I just wondered though, what stops these people making things up then?

I hope you don’t mind me asking.

DogFace

Not at all.. that’s what I was wondering and I’d heard that it has been done. I suppose they’d be in a lot of trouble if they got caught.. I’m not sure that’s enough of a deterrent though!

DogFace

So... Exactly one month on from this and I’ve still not had a response since sending back the signed copy. I sent off three of these requests and the other two responded pretty quickly to say they couldn’t locate them (see here).

Are Moorcroft just being awkward? What action should I take now they haven’t responded within their time limit? I’m going to contact them, of course, but then what?

FYI: I have continued to make my full DMP payments for all of these accounts.