MBNA Credit Card Trick That might work & Paypal

joseph3

born_again wrote: »

I can see a possible issue that a large amount from a CC to your account and then moved to another acc of yours....

But its not a cash credit, its technically a payment made from my credit card back to myself, thats the trick. The mbna systems won't know that though, it's recognised as a purchase payment instead.

When I go on to my paypal, I click on send money to pay for goods & services and then it requests for the email linked to the PayPal which I would like to send money too. I will just use my other paypal email and do that.

To be honest, this is no different than sending money or paying another person for goods and services when they give you thier paypal email. Only difference is that the other paypal email is my own.

What possible issue do you see arising from doing this ? if you dont mind me asking.

Many thanks again for your responses.

joseph3

!!! wrote: »

Take a card with a longer spend range then rather than 60 days.

Or get a money transfer card if you need cash.

Subject to my soft credit check, the offers offered to me, in the end, was not as good as MBNAs one. They showed a good deal at first though once the soft check went through, those limits and deals were revised. To be honest the application has gone through as a hard check now and i have been accepted. Card is on its way.

born_again

joseph3 wrote: »

What possible issue do you see arising from doing this ? if you dont mind me asking.

Many thanks again for your responses.

That would be called tipping off :T

Terry_Towelling

@Ben8282 in post#4 asked a pertinent question about the initial payment from MBNA to PayPal; will that transfer of value be treated as Cash or a Purchase? If you can be satisfied that it will be seen by MBNA as a purchase, you will indeed get value with no fee and no interest (if everything else in your chain works out for you without accounts being frozen for suspicious-looking activity).

So you now have a sum of money that you can put in a savings account and use to make purchases as an when you need. However, you also need to factor in that you will be servicing a large (albeit interest-free) debt on your MBNA card from day one. Your payments to the card will need to be higher because the debt is larger.

That's still fine, but it will eat into the benefit of doing the scheme in the first place. So, apart from stoozing and gaining a bit of interest from stashing the cash in a savings account, what do you actually plan on doing with the cash? Do you have any large spends in mind more than 60 days into the future, or was your intent to only stooze from the outset?

joseph3

born_again wrote: »

That would be called tipping off :T

Tipping off? you talk as if this is illegal what I am about to do ? its perfectly legal, more so clever than what you're referring to as tipping off.

Don't understand what you're trying to say to be honest. It's very simple what I have said above and transparent.

Thanks for your insight anyway.

joseph3

Terry_Towelling wrote: »

@Ben8282 in post#4 asked a pertinent question about the initial payment from MBNA to PayPal; will that transfer of value be treated as Cash or a Purchase? If you can be satisfied that it will be seen by MBNA as a purchase, you will indeed get value with no fee and no interest (if everything else in your chain works out for you without accounts being frozen for suspicious-looking activity).

So you now have a sum of money that you can put in a savings account and use to make purchases as an when you need. However, you also need to factor in that you will be servicing a large (albeit interest-free) debt on your MBNA card from day one. Your payments to the card will need to be higher because the debt is larger.

That's still fine, but it will eat into the benefit of doing the scheme in the first place. So, apart from stoozing and gaining a bit of interest from stashing the cash in a savings account, what do you actually plan on doing with the cash? Do you have any large spends in mind more than 60 days into the future, or was your intent to only stooze from the outset?

Thanks, Terry for your response.

So to answer your first question. Yes MBNA would recognise this payment as a purchase payment because under FCA the transaction is made to pay for a goods and service i.e. a purchase. Just like you would buy something off eBay and use your credit card via PayPal the transaction made is classed under a goods and service payment.

There are 2 options with PayPal, to 1. pay for goods and service or 2. send money to a friend. Now option 2 would be a problem and would not be recognised as a purchase.

I know this because previously I have paid for goods and service manually to a friends email and it was taken as a purchase payment through my Natwest Credit Card at the time.

Accounts shouldn't be frozen unless they would like to prove of the purchase which can be provided with ease, more so I could actually just get a relative to put eBay listing with their details and listings and then link my PayPal to that listing so when I pay for the item its considered a purchase and comes straight back to me. Simple really, perfectly legal.

To be honest, that's just overkill, as I have made large sum payments through my previous old credit card before. So I am satisfied that it would work fine.

So in response to your second paragraph. Yes, I would have a large lump sum, though, that wouldn't be any different to anyone else who would have a large sum credit card with no purchase limits (i.e. 60 days like me) and still have 12 months 0% payback. you understand its no different to anyone else, I'm just trying to buy myself a little time because I have only 60 days to make decisions and that's not savvy especially if I suddenly need to use the credit card again after 60 days which will then be subject to interest you understand.

So taking into account your second paragraph, now i have for e.g. £5000 limit on the card which was made via a purchase payment through PayPal and now into my bank account.

Let's say for example I now intend to only spend £1000 for now. there is £4000 left, well that £4000 I will just divide by 26 as that is the number of months I have for 0% interest with MBNA and will then set up a direct debit for £153 a month coming out of the £4000 which I put into my account + whatever is needed to pay out of my pocket to cover the other £1000 I spent which be an extra £38 a month from my pocket so in total the direct debit will be £191 for 26 months.

Now remember £4000 of that is not actually my money, I'm just giving back what they have given me but with instalments. only £1000 of it is mine and which will come out of my pocket.

So, of course, this only applies if I was to borrow only £1000, now if I was to borrow more or less, then I just apply the same math just to make sure that its all paid off by 26 months. No, I don't ever intend to spend the whole limit, they actually gave me more than what I asked for but at least I know I have the option too without being burdened with huge interest after 60 days you understand what I mean. I am in control.

This is no different to someone who has a credit card with no purchase limit as others have already suggested to me but then maxes out their credit card leaving them to pay a higher direct debit in order to meet their 0% deadline.

And with all due respect, i wont make the assumption that if one max's out their credit that they wouldn't be able to pay that back, its all subjective to their circumstances, convenience and plans with work, payments etc... in my case I am a surveyor who has yet been paid for the final stages of my job now once I am, then I can have the option of either paying what I have borrowed in full or in custom direct debit stages.

Baring in mind that credit card always shows/expect minimum payments so you fall for the trap of interest after the 0% offer is finished. I will never do that, the math applied above will cover the payment in full within the limit and for sure be well beyond any minimum payment.

All in all, as long as I know that I can pay back the full limits of a credit card within the interest-free time no matter how big or small the limit is. If I guarantee and know I can pay that off then there is no problem.

The problem only occurs when those who use a credit card and don't have the means to pay it back which leaves them in a very bad situation.

Me, I am just trying a different method to theoretically gain more purchase control like any other credit card user with a 0% purchase for however months but also have no limits when to make purchases, unlike me who has 60 days only. I'm just trying this method with PayPal etc...as mentioned above to take advantage of the interest-free period knowing I can use the funds anytime I can.

In response to your final question, the intent behind all of this is to bypass the 60 days, essentially, tricking, MBNA that I have made a purchase. OF COURSE, if there was another credit card out there with no limits then I would have just done that rather than all this headache but the offers given to me were revised after my soft check and therefore wasn't great. Hence me going through MBNA, now they have done a hard check on my credit profile so I will stick by it. Otherwise doing another credit search check impacts my credit profile which i don't want.

Finally, no I do not intend to stooze or gain any capital interest from leaving it in a savings accounts. To be honest, that's perfectly legal to do as long as you are debt-free and financially savvy, quite clever but no even though I have that option. no that's not my intent. All I want is control over purchases like any other credit card user who has no limits on their purchases over the interest period. Unlike me who is being limited to 60 days. I want to bypass that. Who knows let's say come January beyond 60 days and I feel the credit could be a convenience in covering a certain cost knowing I can pay that back then why should I subject myself to further interest after 60 days, knowing that this method would bypass that you know.

People delve into their credit cards all the time and cannot guarantee the exact time of usage at least with this method I have that control also, just as long as I know I can pay it back within the 0% free period of 26 months etc..

Again, this is no different to anyone else having a credit card with 0% purchases and no limits on when to make those purchases. Me I have those limits and so I am trying to bypass that and be as free as those who have credit cards with no limits on when to make purchases.

Sorry for the essay, though, I hope that answers your questions.

tlc678910

Sounds like fraud to me. The card is intended for purchases and balance transfers and you would like to use a roundabout way to get hold of the cash by paying yourself. Involving a relative with a pretend ebay transaction would be just more evidence that this is dishonest and you would be getting a relative involved in fraud.

You may get away with it - you may not. If you are found out i would think worse case a fraud marker could be applied to you meaning your banks could withdraw your banking without explanation.

If you wanted money you should have just got a money transfer credit card.

Terry_Towelling

It doesn't really sound like fraud, @tlc678910. There's no 'real' deception, it's all out in the open and the money will be paid back in full.

Thanks for your 'essay' @joseph3. I think you may have misunderstood the thrust of my post. I understand the reasoning behind what you are proposing. My main reservation was the way in which the value would be taken from your MBNA card and routed to your PayPal account. You have clarified this by saying the chain of transactions creates the impression of a purchase to the card issuer.

I understand also the intent to have control, and the issue of clearing the balance, and how best to do it in instalments, but, regardless of your intent, I believe you would be better advised to only pay the minimum payments demanded by MBNA and to retain the surplus in an interest-bearing account. As you know, that would leave you with the wherewithal to clear the balance at the end of the promo period, and give a small amount of interest to boot.

Obviously, if you use some of the 'cash reserve' during the promo period, you would (as you say) have to make that up out of your other income/savings.

My reference to your account being frozen was slightly tongue-in-cheek and, perhaps cryptically, dovetailed in with what @born again had said about 'tipping off' - which was also tongue-in-cheek.

touch1337

joseph3 wrote: »

I have two business PayPal accounts so i don't pay any extra charges on payment or receipt of payments.

There's still transaction fees to pay on b2b PayPal transactions. I think it's somewhere between 2.9% and 3.4% depending on the value of transactions. They have a discounted rate for charities and not-for-profits but I don't think they have any zero rate fees (except for gift transactions to Friends + Family)

Ben8282

When I suggested applying for a 'real' purchases card you said that when you checked eligibility you were not offered the headline 20+ month 0% purchase periods but instead were offered shorter periods of between 6 - 12 months.
The obvious reason for this is that your ability to obtain credit is currently not very good. Do you not think that rather than fill this card up for no apparent reason other than to have a reserve of funds, you are not even really interested in stoozing, it would be better to repay debt and/or concentrate on putting your credit files in better shape so that you will be able to get headline rate 0% purchase offers? Adding another £5000 (or however much you actually intend to take) to your existing balances and using almost all of the available credit on this card is going to do nothing to help your situation should you need to apply for further credit in the near future.