Wills, keeping it in the family

pjaj

We currently have a pair of mirror wills that leave the entire estate to the other spouse and then equal division between our children on second death.Can we add that, should the survivor remarry, the deceased's half of the estate still eventually gets divided between the children and cannot be passed to a second spouse? We realise that remarriage invalidates the survivors existing will, and nothing can be done about that by the deceased spouse.

getmore4less

Life interest(IPDI) trust is quite common, but that can leave a spouse short of funds.
Other trust structures can resolve that issue

DigForVictory

getmore4less wrote: »

Other trust structures can resolve that issue

Almost always better to have a good Trust than have to blackmail the offspring into paying your heating as otherwise you'll marry a gold-digger for the short term benefits...

pip895

We looked into the trust option but there seemed to be some unfavourable tax implications so decided just to trust each other to rewrite a will in the unlikely event of either of us remarrying after the other passed away..

74jax

Just curious in this scenario, if the widower remarries and each have a property already, so sell both to buy 1 together. Live happily etc for say 20yrs together and then dies, does the new spouse have to sell up in order to give the children their money?

Totally just me being curious and not based on anything.

Manxman_in_exile

pip895 wrote: »

We looked into the trust option but there seemed to be some unfavourable tax implications so decided just to trust each other to rewrite a will in the unlikely event of either of us remarrying after the other passed away..

Hmmm...


Obviously I can't speak for you or your other half, but widows and widowers can and do get remarried.


My brother remarried a couple of years after his wife's death and just over a year before his own death. We knew the second marriage revoked his existing will, but everybody assumed that he would have executed a new will making adequate provision for the two children (and grandchildren) from the first marriage. He had made a new will, but left everything (apart from some nominal specific bequests to his kids) to his second wife. He also left a letter stating that he understood the implications of what he was doing.


His children lost out to the sum of about £200k (cash and investments) not including the value of the house, which he owned. As you may imagine, my family were not pleased.


On the brighter side, my wife and I have mirror wills distributing our estate between our respective families (we have no children and one of us has contributed more to our "wealth" than the other) and we do trust each other to respect the joint intent of our wills if one of us remarries after the other dies. At least that's the plan...

Manxman_in_exile

74jax wrote: »

Just curious in this scenario, if the widower remarries and each have a property already, so sell both to buy 1 together. Live happily etc for say 20yrs together and then dies, does the new spouse have to sell up in order to give the children their money?

Totally just me being curious and not based on anything.

I'd be quite interested to know the answer to that as well.

nom_de_plume

74jax wrote: »

Just curious in this scenario, if the widower remarries and each have a property already, so sell both to buy 1 together. Live happily etc for say 20yrs together and then dies, does the new spouse have to sell up in order to give the children their money?

Totally just me being curious and not based on anything.

The answer would depend on how the house was owned and how the Will was worded.


If it was straight forward in that the the house was owned as 50:50 tenants in common and the deceased's Will left everything to his children with no provisos for his widow then (assuming she had no other monies to fund alternatives) yes, she could well be forced to sell.

Dox

74jax wrote: »

Just curious in this scenario, if the widower remarries and each have a property already, so sell both to buy 1 together. Live happily etc for say 20yrs together and then dies, does the new spouse have to sell up in order to give the children their money?

Depends on how the 'new' property is owned. Joint tenants, or a will leaving his/her half to the surviving spouse, and the children are not entitled to any part of the property.

If the property is held as tenants in common, and the spouse who dies has left their half to their children (with no life interest to the surviving spouse), then the survivor can either buy out the children if the cash is available to do so, or sell the property to pay the children their inheritance.

If ever there was a case for having a properly drawn will in place...!

pickledonionspaceraider

This is really scary stuff.

If people can just do what they want anyway after you die, what's the point
Reading about Manxmans brother, there seems little you can do whilst you are alive, to ensure your estate goes to where you want it to - it seems everything just goes to those who grab first / shout the loudest

This is terrifying

Malthusian

pickledonionspaceraider wrote: »

Reading about Manxmans brother, there seems little you can do whilst you are alive, to ensure your estate goes to where you want it to - it seems everything just goes to those who grab first / shout the loudest

I don't know how you draw that conclusion. Manxman's sister-in-law's estate went exactly where she wanted it to go - her husband. Manxman's brother's estate also went exactly where he wanted it to go - his new wife (plus specific bequests to his kids).

He even went to the trouble of confirming that he wasn't being careless, which was good of him as some people would have not bothered and left their disinherited children wondering whether dad meant to do it or was careless or hoodwinked.

This is terrifying

Terror is what you might feel if a lion walks out in front of you. The fact that you can't control other people's money from beyond the grave should not inspire terror.

If you want someone to have your stuff so badly then just give it to them.

If you don't want to give it to them because you still need it, you will have to decide which matters more.

Note that when the OP said "we decided just to trust each other", that doesn't mean "we decided to trust each other not to ever remarry ever", it can mean "we decided to trust each other that if the survivor remarries, they will draft their new Will so that it doesn't disinherit our children entirely".

As me old pa wisely said once, a trust is what you set up when you don't trust people. Don't trust your wastrel son to not drink away his inheritance? Set up a discretionary trust. Don't trust your spouse not to fly off to Cape Verde with a hot young stud named Pedro and forget the kids? Interest in possession trust.