Conditional Wills

onwards&upwards

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

No brainier really, and anyway he is hardly in a position to judge what is a sensible use of money, as currently it sounds like he wants to leave over £700k to the tax man.

Not everybody has a problem paying the taxes they owe, believe it or not some people actually think it’s a good thing to contribute to their country.

getmore4less

Malthusian wrote: »

Fair point. In that case 67% can be left to the sister and she can have that thankless job. If she keeps it all to herself that still meets dad's stated objectives. (Keep the money out of his prodigal son's hands unless an unspecified third party decides he deserves it, otherwise his other two children get all the money. Only the OP was excluded from the pool of potential third parties, not the sister.)

Both the OP and his dad should bear in mind that if he leaves the estate 50/50 to the two of them, they can always sign a Deed of Variation to make it 33/33/33 if 17% of the estate is not worth fraternal strife.

Leaving 33% to a discretionary trust controlled by lawyers would be an extremely drastic and expensive step that is not justified by someone spending £10k on partying instead of a house deposit.

Given

My dad is reluctant to give an equal share because he feels that my brother will again unwisely spend the money and waste it.
..........
My suggestion to my dad would be that he could have an equal share of the money on the stipulation that he buys a house with the money. My dads concern is that he would sell the house straight away.
..........
Is there a way of putting conditions that should he buy a house then he can’t sell it within a certain time frame? Is there a way of safeguarding the finances should he sell it so that no third party can be entitled to it?

This could be a a reasonable case for an IPDI trust that ring fences funds for accommodation use only.

With the remaindermen men being family members including potential offspring of the brother.

Still leaves the problem of trustees but once in property the admin overheads can be low.

Of course providing the accommodation just frees up income, as my grandmother put it, to "!!!! against the wall"


With an estate that will produce gifts in excess of the current current nil rate band for all three beneficiaries any IHT planning needs to be multi generational as there will be a good case for some of it to skip a generation or two.

There may be a good case for a trust that the current kids and their offspring benefit from that gives some tax protection.

Money would be well spent of some expert advise.

jimbo6977

Even if the dad left the errant brother use of a house, with the house itself held in trust, you could still end up with a Michael Carrol / Frat-house / Caddyshack type scenario.

Dox

Guest1987 wrote: »

When my dad had a life insurance/pension pay out a couple of years ago he gave All of us £10k. Both me and my sister put it to good use whereas he spent it on drinking and going out.

My dad is reluctant to give an equal share because he feels that my brother will again unwisely spend the money and waste it.

As you say, you are different people - and maybe your brother thinks that drinking and going out IS putting money to good use. Some other people would agree with him!

With over £2m in the estate, there's plenty of cash for all of you, so why doesn't your father just split the estate 3 ways and let each of you get on with living your different lives, rather than adding layering of legal complexity/cost, the real possibility of legal action by a disgruntled brother, and the even more real likelihood of a family rift?

DigForVictory

I'd also advocate a simple three way split, if possible. Not just as Trusts can be expensive & still not "fix the problem", but also that it is Just Possible that in the meantime, bro make wake up, smell the coffee, find a nice partner & settle down.

At which point a Will written in stern judgement of younger follies & ignoring the power of a partner with a clear eye on the future & a deft hand on the purse strings will be as wrong as a strangling trust.

If dad is willing to take advice, maintain family harmony & split it three ways. If he isn't, consider a deed of variation later?

Newly_retired

Maybe your dad might like to reduce the amount for your brother by including the grandchildren as beneficiaries?

Malthusian

jimbo6977 wrote: »

Even if the dad left the errant brother use of a house, with the house itself held in trust, you could still end up with a Michael Carrol / Frat-house / Caddyshack type scenario.

Indeed. That solution actually encourages irresponsibility because the house doesn't belong to him.

Robert_McGeddon

OP, I personally would not presume to tell your father how he should construct his will. It's his money/house so IMO it is down to him how he chooses to pass it on.

Having said that:
1 You say he's in good health. Great news! He may have 5/10/15 years ahead of him and the family circumstances may well change in that time - your wayward brother may no longer be wayward! The will he makes now will likely be changed before it's brought into use.
2 As already said, a Deed of Variation could be agreed between the beneficiaries after his death. This is an option not a recommendationto plan for as DoVs can also cause friction. Also, it removes your father's wishes being implemented - but he won't be around to be offended.

Perhaps more important is getmoreforless's comment "Some serious urgent IHT planning is needed." Your father's estate looks like being liable for a large amount of inheritance tax. If his assets are wisely invested this liability may increase in real terms over time. If he doesn't need all his assets now and in the foreseeable then gifting some away over time may be a good route to follow. It also lets him choose to whom the gifts are directed. So I suggest your father seeks advice from an IHT specialist (Chartered Accountant or IoT member) or IFA. Planning in advance is a far better option than fighting a rearguard action.

Mistral001

Robert_McGeddon wrote: »

OP, I personally would not presume to tell your father how he should construct his will. It's his money/house so IMO it is down to him how he chooses to pass it on.

.

Good advice. Keep away from commenting or advising except in the case of getting preferential treatment at the expense of others in the family when you do not want it.

Never make suggestions either. It will never be forgotten that it was your idea.