Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

GreatApe

It's not just the battery pack it's also

Power electronics (significant in that at least 100KW of DC power needs to be converted to AC power)
Heating and cooling
The electric motor
Computer hardware to handle all the software
A stronger frame and suspension to handle the 300kg+ mass

ICE are cheap to manufacture so much so that you can get a full car a i10 for under £7k + VAT

I like the golf Vs e golf comparison
With the e golf costing around £7,000 more before government breaks
And that's a somewhat crippled car due to its low range on the motorways
Really it should be 50KWh e golf rather than 35KWh e golf Vs the petrol version
So the difference is perhaps £8-9k additional cost in replacing an ICE with a BEV platform

almillar

I like the golf Vs e golf comparison

I don't. Already discussed - The eGolf is relatively expensive, for an electric car. The eUp is even worse, compared to an ICE Up. That's just VW, and it would be an easy example, but it's a bad one. How about the 3 versions of ioniq? How about Clio vs Zoe, built in the same factory? Remember to match speed and spec as closely as possible. I don't know the answers BTW, just that VW don't really want to sell EVs right now, until their new, proper EVs come along.

EVandPV

almillar wrote: »

How about Clio vs Zoe, built in the same factory?

Indeed. Clio starts around £13.5k, a 40kwh Zoe can be bought for £14k.

GreatApe

Ionic Hybrid £19,191
Ionic plug in £26,605
Ionic Full BEV £30,849 (before government bungs)

This should be an eye opener for people who think BEVs are close to ICE cars
And this is a 160 mile BEV on range most people would probably want 200 mile range to take into account winter driving will be 20-30% less and battery will degrade somewhat

Same car but costs £11,660 more and it might save 3-4 tons of CO2 in its entire life Vs it's ICE cousin
That's a really really !!!!!! return on ££/CO2 reduction

GreatApe

Ionic Hybrid is realistically about 100 grams per KM
A BEV charged by marginal gas is about 70 grams per KM
A BEV charged by marginal coal is about 150 grams per KM

The world's biggest car market is marginal coal, second & third biggest is marginal coal and gas and the fourth biggest car market is marginal coal. And this isn't changing this decade while more wind and solar will be deployed marginal generation in the world's 4 biggest auto markets will still be coal or gas

At best an Ionic in the UK saves just 30% CO2, one in Germany or China emits 50% more than its petrol cousin. And this doesn't even take into account that a big heavy BEV costs more in materials and energy to produce.

2020-2030 efficient hybrids make sense
1-3KWh battery size 100 gram/km hybrids
Rather than 50-75KWh Tesla's/BEVs with 70-150 gram emmissions

Spend £11.7k less on the hybrid and use that £11.7k to upgrade your homes insulation and solar much better for everyone

GreatApe

EVandPV wrote: »

Indeed. Clio starts around £13.5k, a 40kwh Zoe can be bought for £14k.

Link for Zoe @ 14k?
Coming up as over £22,823 on my search this is for the 50kwh

EVandPV

GreatApe wrote: »

Link for Zoe @ 14k?
Coming up as over £22,823 on my search this is for the 50kwh

40kwh
https://www.motors.co.uk/car-55226078/?i=23&m=sp

Here's the invoice for mine.

EVandPV

There will no doubt be a raft of used 22kwh and 40kwh Zoes coming on the market soon with the new ZE50 launching.
22's are going for as little as £6000 at the moment.

silverwhistle

EVandPV wrote: »

There will no doubt be a raft of used 22kwh and 40kwh Zoes coming on the market soon with the new ZE50 launching.
22's are going for as little as £6000 at the moment.

Yes, but the monthly battery lease cost is more than I currently pay for petrol, so they're a non-starter. A battery owned one, on the other hand...

ABrass

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Article on BNEF's battery cost analysis.

Powering The EV Revolution — Battery Packs Now At $156/kWh, 13% Lower Than 2018, Finds BNEF

It's worth reminding ourselves that BNEF have historically underestimated he rate of price reduction for batteries. In their 2017 report they thought it'd take about 5 years to hit the price we're looking at today, 2.5 years later.