Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Grumpy_chap

ABrass said:

All the SR models are supposed to be either LFP or moving to it now. LR or performance use Cobalt/Nickel chemistry.

TESLA suggest (when you dive into the website at least three levels down) all the batteries are Li-ION:
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_gb/GUID-E414862C-CFA1-4A0B-9548-BE21C32CAA58.html

Battery - High Voltage

Type	Liquid-cooled lithium ion (Li-ion)
Nominal Voltage (cars manufactured in U.S.)	360V DC
Nominal Voltage (cars manufactured in China)	355.2V DC
Temperature Range	Do not expose Model 3 to ambient temperatures above 140° F (60° C) or below -22° F (-30° C) for more than 24 hours at a time.

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

But now I've gone down this rabbit hole I'd be interested to see your links, as I'm too having to draw from stuff I've read and heard, and info varies.

Hope this works as I wrote a long answer twice before the short one as my responses were going missing:
https://thedriven.io/2021/11/05/tesla-adds-10-percent-range-larger-battery-to-model-3-no-change-in-price/#:~:text=And there is no indication,614km from a previous 580km.

orrery

Grumpy_chap said:

I certainly do feel that the balance is shifting rapidly towards me getting an EV as my next car.  The threshold is a 100 kWh (or thereabouts) battery (as charging any more overnight on single-phase is not realistic) and 4 miles/kWh (or thereabouts).

Eh? What does the size of battery and charging time have to do with the price of tights and eggs?

EVs do about 3 or 4 miles per kWh. So, the amount that you need to charge relates more directly to the miles you do in a day rather than the total battery size. If you can charge more than that in the average overnight then that is all you need, as you'll hit 100% eventually.

I have a Skoda Enyaq with an 80kWh battery, a 4kW charge point (I've had it since the government subsidised their install for free) and cheap overnight tariff that lasts only 4 hours. I can charge barely 20% of my battery overnight, but that is about 50 miles of range which is loads more than I do on average. I've had my Enyaq for just over a week, and last night was the first night that it hit fully charged, but even at 50% charge it has the same range as my previous EV when fully charged.

Grumpy_chap

orrery said:

Eh? What does the size of battery and charging time have to do with the price of tights and eggs?

EVs do about 3 or 4 miles per kWh. 

Well, with UK single phase domestic power, the most you can have is around 32 Amps or 7.2 kW.

If you have a 100 kWh battery, that is 14 hours to charge at 7 kW.  Max overnight charge is therefore limited at that level.  No point having a larger battery than that.

3 to 4 miles / kWh, so 300 to 400 mile range so the vast majority of daily demands are met.  Actually, the 4 miles / kWh is an achievable target and I think realistic to achieve.

Obviously, having a more efficient EV would be better, so more miles from the same 100 kWh battery.  Still no point in a larger battery capacity because you can't charge that between one day working and the next day working.  Range then all comes down to efficiency from that 100 kWh.

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

orrery said:

Eh? What does the size of battery and charging time have to do with the price of tights and eggs?

EVs do about 3 or 4 miles per kWh. 

Well, with UK single phase domestic power, the most you can have is around 32 Amps or 7.2 kW.

If you have a 100 kWh battery, that is 14 hours to charge at 7 kW.  Max overnight charge is therefore limited at that level.  No point having a larger battery than that.

3 to 4 miles / kWh, so 300 to 400 mile range so the vast majority of daily demands are met.  Actually, the 4 miles / kWh is an achievable target and I think realistic to achieve.

Obviously, having a more efficient EV would be better, so more miles from the same 100 kWh battery.  Still no point in a larger battery capacity because you can't charge that between one day working and the next day working.  Range then all comes down to efficiency from that 100 kWh.

You may believe you know what you want from an EV but the psyche of driving/running on is so different from an ICE that there is a good chance that your perspective might change once you actually get one. It might be an idea to buy an old Leaf or Zoe to get a feel for EV life. You should be able to sell it again without losing too much money? 

It is easy to focus on range to the exclusion of everything else but there are many other practicalities to consider just as with any other car. 

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

It might be an idea to buy an old Leaf or Zoe to get a feel for EV life. 

Now, there's a thing....

My car replacement is currently on hold as WFH means I hardly use a car at all and I mentioned to my wife that something along those lines could be suitable if WFH becomes permanent.  I saw one at just under £6k, 2011 plate with low miles, seems to be gone now, but there are others not far off:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112040222029

There are fewer Zoe's around that are not Battery Lease - so they'd be expensive to run.

I am really waiting for some clear guidance with regard to WFH for the future as, frankly, if I am going to be still only ever doing 2k miles per year, my current car will last forever and a day.

EDIT:  If I return to the office full time with 70 mile each way commute plus the need to do travel between sites as well on some days, then range will be critical.  Fortunately, the options of cars that can meet that (even in harsh weather) is increasing - MG5 LR is a strong contender.

ABrass

Grumpy_chap said:

ABrass said:

All the SR models are supposed to be either LFP or moving to it now. LR or performance use Cobalt/Nickel chemistry.

TESLA suggest (when you dive into the website at least three levels down) all the batteries are Li-ION:
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_gb/GUID-E414862C-CFA1-4A0B-9548-BE21C32CAA58.html

Battery - High Voltage

Type	Liquid-cooled lithium ion (Li-ion)
Nominal Voltage (cars manufactured in U.S.)	360V DC
Nominal Voltage (cars manufactured in China)	355.2V DC
Temperature Range	Do not expose Model 3 to ambient temperatures above 140° F (60° C) or below -22° F (-30° C) for more than 24 hours at a time.

Of course they do, Nickel/Cobalt and LFP are both types of lithium ion batteries. 

I have no idea how many times they've switched chemistry, let alone minor tweaks to formulae, but it has been several over the life of the Model S.

EVandPV

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

It might be an idea to buy an old Leaf or Zoe to get a feel for EV life. 

There are fewer Zoe's around that are not Battery Lease - so they'd be expensive to run.

Renault are now keen to do away with the battery leases and you'll be able to buy it out on any Zoe model prior to the ZE50 (they no longer offer a lease since the release of the ZE50).
I'm currently considering buying out the lease on my ZE40.
From what I hear on other forums, I would expect the price to buy out a 22kwh battery to be around £2-3k depending on the age of the car, maybe less on older cars.

CKhalvashi

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

It might be an idea to buy an old Leaf or Zoe to get a feel for EV life. 

Now, there's a thing....

My car replacement is currently on hold as WFH means I hardly use a car at all and I mentioned to my wife that something along those lines could be suitable if WFH becomes permanent.  I saw one at just under £6k, 2011 plate with low miles, seems to be gone now, but there are others not far off:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112040222029

There are fewer Zoe's around that are not Battery Lease - so they'd be expensive to run.

I am really waiting for some clear guidance with regard to WFH for the future as, frankly, if I am going to be still only ever doing 2k miles per year, my current car will last forever and a day.

EDIT:  If I return to the office full time with 70 mile each way commute plus the need to do travel between sites as well on some days, then range will be critical.  Fortunately, the options of cars that can meet that (even in harsh weather) is increasing - MG5 LR is a strong contender.

The MG5 becomes even stronger if you are able to get the NHS discounts on them.

Not sure of your personal situation Grumpy, but if you're able to go to 1 car between you (although appreciate we could last year and possibly now at a push, but it likely won't be workable when OH goes back to work full time properly), a single EV may be an option for you, but if you're at the 140 mile mark, I can personally recommend an Ioniq (with the uprated battery pack, so the latest version) as long as not too much is motorway. This may become less ideal for you with site visits depending on your mobile charging situation.

Martyn1981

Welcome to the party Australia.

EV sales triple in 2021 which seems to reflect a lot of news I see that demand for BEV's exist, but supply is low. And not just Tesla, the article matches comments I've heard* that MG's and Hyundai's are really in demand, just need more supply.

*A newish Youtube channel 'Electric Viking' based in Australia gives lots of info especially from Asia and Oceania, and  the host Sam definitely has a liking for the excellent products from Hyundai.

New electric vehicle sales triple in Australia with Tesla outstripping other makers

The number of new electric vehicles in Australia has tripled after years of lagging sales, off the back of incentives introduced by state governments to support their uptake.

Australia recorded 24,078 EV sales in 2021, a significant increase from the 6,900 sold in 2020, which means electric cars now make up 2.39% of the new car market.

“We’ve been waiting for quite a few years to hit the 1% mark, so to skip that and go straight to 2% is a big deal,” Jafari said.

“We’ve been waiting for quite a few years to hit the 1% mark, so to skip that and go straight to 2% is a big deal,” Jafari said.