Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Martyn1981

michaels said:

Martyn1981 said:

michaels said:

Martyn1981 said:

This vid covers loads of stuff we've talked about previously. It's Fuly Charged, and Bobby gets his 2011 Leaf back after a battery upgrade to 40kWh. This particular upgrade goes back over a year thanks to Covid, and I seem to recall we also chatted on here about battery replacements in general for the early Leaf's at that time.

Bobby goes to lengths to explain that this is really just an issue for the earliest Leaf's, early battery tech, lots of recharging etc etc, and that for new BEV's now, the myth of a battery replacement is just that (other than for a faulty pack) as the batts don't degrade quickly, and may well see out the life of the car instead.

His old battery, after a hard life was down to about 40 miles of range in harsh conditions, whilst the replacement (from a crashed rollover leaf) is giving him 120-125 miles in wet, cold motorway driving. The conversion cost was £4k, which seems good value either as an additional cost for the past 10yrs of use, or as an investment for another 10yrs.

During the vid, we also see the ~0.5MWh stationary storage that the company have built using second life batts, and a 360kWh tractor conversion. This tractor will be used on a work site towing 30t trailers of rubble away, and across a public road, where the stipulations were that the work vehicle had to be zero emissions.

Return of the LEAF: Robert drives his range extended EV home from Holland

Umm - 4k sounds a good price but I thought the cost was 8k which makes the maths much harder to justify.  I was just thinking about this - I wonder how much ~nissan are paying at the pack level for 40kwh leaf batteries these days - say it is £100 per kwh that would be £4k - sadly I can't see them selling 40kwh packs at that sort of level

Hiya, it wasn't a new pack from Nissan, it was a recycled secondhand pack from a separate company. Robert mentions the cost in the video.

Apologies for conflating two issues:
1) The cost to the customer for upgrading a leaf 24 to a 40 pack (second hand) in the UK or Holland is £8.5k not 4k
2) I was then speculating what it should cost if Nissan were willing to sell new 40kwh packs

Cheers, and thanks, I wrongly read your post as being the price the company charges, rather than other companies. Maybe Bobby got a good deal, also I can't see this service specifically on their site (but may have missed it), so perhaps its just something they do occassionally? Interestingly, well for me, is that the £4k figure seems irresistable, whereas the £8k+ figure is questionable, so that price difference has a massive impact on my thoughts/opinion as it seems to cross an economic line, at least in my head.

Utter guess by me, but perhaps Nissan are somewhere in the £150/kWh cost at a pack level(?) so with supply, profit etc, I'd guess at over £8k just for the pack. But I really know nothing, and your guess will be better than mine.

Martyn1981

Ummm, what, nah! I think this one is just for fun.

800 HP Thundertruck Concept EV Uses Solar “Batwing” To Charge Off-Grid

Imagine you’re a certain type of person. The type of person who looks at a concept like the Tesla Cybertruck and thinks, “No, that’s just not extreme enough for me.” If you’re that type of person, you might just be the right type of person for this: the post-apocalyptic, 800 HP, 4WD, dual motor, ultra-extreme Thundertruck, by Wolfgang LA.

This did though remind me of the aCar, a cheap vehicle, possibly with PV on the roof, for use in rural African countries/areas, but looking for news, it doesn't seem like much has moved forward.

Martyn1981

Super short article showing how much time US commercial vehicles spend idling in normal use. Probably won't surprise anyone, but interesting to see and contextualize the instant benefits from BEV's on local air emissions/pollution.

US Transit Buses Idle For 3.7 Hours Out Of 9 Hours Per Day — New Study

CKhalvashi

Martyn1981 said:

michaels said:

Martyn1981 said:

michaels said:

Martyn1981 said:

This vid covers loads of stuff we've talked about previously. It's Fuly Charged, and Bobby gets his 2011 Leaf back after a battery upgrade to 40kWh. This particular upgrade goes back over a year thanks to Covid, and I seem to recall we also chatted on here about battery replacements in general for the early Leaf's at that time.

Bobby goes to lengths to explain that this is really just an issue for the earliest Leaf's, early battery tech, lots of recharging etc etc, and that for new BEV's now, the myth of a battery replacement is just that (other than for a faulty pack) as the batts don't degrade quickly, and may well see out the life of the car instead.

His old battery, after a hard life was down to about 40 miles of range in harsh conditions, whilst the replacement (from a crashed rollover leaf) is giving him 120-125 miles in wet, cold motorway driving. The conversion cost was £4k, which seems good value either as an additional cost for the past 10yrs of use, or as an investment for another 10yrs.

During the vid, we also see the ~0.5MWh stationary storage that the company have built using second life batts, and a 360kWh tractor conversion. This tractor will be used on a work site towing 30t trailers of rubble away, and across a public road, where the stipulations were that the work vehicle had to be zero emissions.

Return of the LEAF: Robert drives his range extended EV home from Holland

Umm - 4k sounds a good price but I thought the cost was 8k which makes the maths much harder to justify.  I was just thinking about this - I wonder how much ~nissan are paying at the pack level for 40kwh leaf batteries these days - say it is £100 per kwh that would be £4k - sadly I can't see them selling 40kwh packs at that sort of level

Hiya, it wasn't a new pack from Nissan, it was a recycled secondhand pack from a separate company. Robert mentions the cost in the video.

Apologies for conflating two issues:
1) The cost to the customer for upgrading a leaf 24 to a 40 pack (second hand) in the UK or Holland is £8.5k not 4k
2) I was then speculating what it should cost if Nissan were willing to sell new 40kwh packs

Cheers, and thanks, I wrongly read your post as being the price the company charges, rather than other companies. Maybe Bobby got a good deal, also I can't see this service specifically on their site (but may have missed it), so perhaps its just something they do occassionally? Interestingly, well for me, is that the £4k figure seems irresistable, whereas the £8k+ figure is questionable, so that price difference has a massive impact on my thoughts/opinion as it seems to cross an economic line, at least in my head.

Utter guess by me, but perhaps Nissan are somewhere in the £150/kWh cost at a pack level(?) so with supply, profit etc, I'd guess at over £8k just for the pack. But I really know nothing, and your guess will be better than mine.

But then you should have a 'trade in' value for the 24kWh pack at say £100/kWh for home storage/whatever usage, to be resold at a slightly higher price (say £120/kWh, so £500 margin), leaving a cost of £3600 plus dismantling/fitting.

£4k in this case would put it in the ballpark, possibly a little higher.

£6-8k upfront in this scenario would seem reasonable, but whether I'd personally be willing to spend a further £4k on a £5k (for arguments sake) car is also up for debate in my mind as I'm typing this. I guess it'd depend on how long I'd be willing to keep it, however also must take into account that the 24kWh battery would be pushing it range-wise for my daily commute, so if it were to be cheaper than a 40kWh car in the first place may be worth it.

JKenH

Martyn1981 said:

Super short article showing how much time US commercial vehicles spend idling in normal use. Probably won't surprise anyone, but interesting to see and contextualize the instant benefits from BEV's on local air emissions/pollution.

US Transit Buses Idle For 3.7 Hours Out Of 9 Hours Per Day — New Study

It annoys me how much time drivers of cars, vans and taxis sit with their engine idling. I collected my son-in-law from the station yesterday but had to wait 15 minutes. The BMW waiting alongside me sat there for the whole 15 minutes with his engine running and it wasn’t cold enough to warrant needing heating on. I frequently see vans parked up while the driver has a break with the engine idling. Taxis are the worst though.

It seems the norm that anyone waiting in an ICE vehicle will leave their engine running - maybe it’s the thrum of the engine they find comforting. Automatic stop/start systems don’t cut in until the engine has run a few miles so when the engine is cold(ish) and spewing out the most disgusting pollutants they’re not much help. I suspect some people (perhaps those who don’t pay for their own fuel) switch the systems off anyway.

Now I am not one generally in favour of over regulation (except of course when I think something should be regulated) but from a pollution and CO2 point of view I believe there is a very good case for making all Hackney Carriages electric and no new permits should be issued for ICE taxis. 

Rant over.

Martyn1981

Yep, regulations for taxis are definitely needed. The move by TFL nearly 4 yrs ago to only issue new licences to zero emission capable vehicles, like BEV's with Rx, has I believe, been well received with a lowering in running costs. Alongside this they have been reducing the maximum operating age of pre Euro 6 diesel taxis from 15yrs to 12yrs (dropping the max by 1yr each year, so now 13yrs max and reaching 12yrs max next year).

CKhalvashi

Martyn1981 said:

Yep, regulations for taxis are definitely needed. The move by TFL nearly 4 yrs ago to only issue new licences to zero emission capable vehicles, like BEV's with Rx, has I believe, been well received with a lowering in running costs. Alongside this they have been reducing the maximum operating age of pre Euro 6 diesel taxis from 15yrs to 12yrs (dropping the max by 1yr each year, so now 13yrs max and reaching 12yrs max next year).

In our local area we are all E5, going to all E6 very soon (already this is the case for new vehicles).

I want to see a BEV mandate, but this is going to be fiercely contested at the moment on cost sadly, and with several influential companies in the licensing area is likely a legal battle the council are going to refuse to have.

JKenH

Cars are suddenly worth $4.5 trillion, and it's not all Tesla

Tesla it seems is now valued at more than the entire global auto sector was 2 years ago.

What was, just before the pandemic, a roughly US$1 trillion (NZ$1.5 trillion) global auto sector is now valued at almost US$3 trillion (NZ$4.5 trillion).

Moreover, it defies reason to assume that a sector that is still essentially in the business of selling roughly 95 million vehicles a year is suddenly worth three times what it was two years ago.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/300488294/cars-are-suddenly-worth-45-trillion-and-its-not-all-tesla

michaels

JKenH said:

Cars are suddenly worth $4.5 trillion, and it's not all Tesla

Tesla it seems is now valued at more than the entire global auto sector was 2 years ago.

What was, just before the pandemic, a roughly US$1 trillion (NZ$1.5 trillion) global auto sector is now valued at almost US$3 trillion (NZ$4.5 trillion).

Moreover, it defies reason to assume that a sector that is still essentially in the business of selling roughly 95 million vehicles a year is suddenly worth three times what it was two years ago.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/300488294/cars-are-suddenly-worth-45-trillion-and-its-not-all-tesla

Maybe the 'car industry' is now expected to capture some of the value that currently goes to taxi companies, oil companies, car dealerships etc.

Martyn1981

I'm reading into this, so just opinion, and nothing solid yet. But if Hyundai is pausing, possibly ending their HFCV development for road cars (and this is just speculation at the moment), then the potential impact of this news could be enormous. It's not about proving that BEV's are better, so to speak, it's about removing the 'shiny object' distractions that can undermine a transition, or slow it down.

RE has been slowed by false promises of clean coal, or CCS for FF's, and transitioning to BEV's has been slowed, somewhat, with promises of HFCV's or even H2 ICE's.

As the over hyped alternatives start to disappear, it should/could lead to a bigger and faster push for BEV's as the solution gains focus, and we simply 'get on with it'. Well, one can hope.


Hyundai pauses Genesis hydrogen fuel cell project just days after ending ICE engines

Hyundai has suspended development of their Genesis hydrogen fuel cell vehicle indefinitely, according to Chosun Ilbo. The news comes hot on the heels of Hyundai announcing an end to internal combustion engine development.

While Chosun‘s article (as translated by Google) does not seem to state that Hyundai has permanently canceled their fuel cell Genesis, the project is at the very least on pause for the time being. Hyundai has, in the past, stated that they view battery electric vehicles as a stopgap “until fuel cell vehicles take hold,” but that was in 2016.