The Alternative Green Energy Thread

JKenH

ABrass said:

shinytop said:

ABrass said:

Great, new nuclear plants designs. Throw in a decade for design and prototyping delays and that would be 20 years away. We might as well wait for Fusion.

Also, electrolysers need cheap energy, nuclear isn't cheap and the industry doesn't seem to be insisting that constant power is needed based on the number of renewables plus electrolyser projects announced.

Isn't that because apart from nuclear, the industry builds what will make a profit, not what will ensure energy security?  There are no viable storage at scale projects in the pipeline because nobody is funding them.  The assumption was made that gas would fill the gaps in RE and look how well that has gone. 

I don't have the answer but we need a coherent plan that isn't just 'build more RE' and I don't see it.    

It isnt that complex, daily variability will be sorted with lion batteries. Seasonal variation and unusual lulls will be met with demand shedding (no, we don't need to make Hydrogen 24x7) and interconnectors, plus the rump of the fossil fuel brigade.

This stuff has been thought out and modeled excessively, it's there for the finding.

I wonder if the model made provision for Putin invading Ukraine or Covid or whatever the next few years might throw at us.

shinytop

ABrass said:

shinytop said:

ABrass said:

Great, new nuclear plants designs. Throw in a decade for design and prototyping delays and that would be 20 years away. We might as well wait for Fusion.

Also, electrolysers need cheap energy, nuclear isn't cheap and the industry doesn't seem to be insisting that constant power is needed based on the number of renewables plus electrolyser projects announced.

Isn't that because apart from nuclear, the industry builds what will make a profit, not what will ensure energy security?  There are no viable storage at scale projects in the pipeline because nobody is funding them.  The assumption was made that gas would fill the gaps in RE and look how well that has gone. 

I don't have the answer but we need a coherent plan that isn't just 'build more RE' and I don't see it.    

It isnt that complex, daily variability will be sorted with lion batteries. Seasonal variation and unusual lulls will be met with demand shedding (no, we don't need to make Hydrogen 24x7) and interconnectors, plus the rump of the fossil fuel brigade.

This stuff has been thought out and modeled excessively, it's there for the finding.

So 'storage' will be lithium ion batteries. We''ll rely on other nearby countries selling and delivering their surplus electricity at a reasonable price and keep burning gas or cut people off when it's not sunny or windy enough. 

Phew! I was getting worried we didn't have a sensible plan for a minute.  

ABrass

shinytop said:

ABrass said:

shinytop said:

ABrass said:

Great, new nuclear plants designs. Throw in a decade for design and prototyping delays and that would be 20 years away. We might as well wait for Fusion.

Also, electrolysers need cheap energy, nuclear isn't cheap and the industry doesn't seem to be insisting that constant power is needed based on the number of renewables plus electrolyser projects announced.

Isn't that because apart from nuclear, the industry builds what will make a profit, not what will ensure energy security?  There are no viable storage at scale projects in the pipeline because nobody is funding them.  The assumption was made that gas would fill the gaps in RE and look how well that has gone. 

I don't have the answer but we need a coherent plan that isn't just 'build more RE' and I don't see it.    

It isnt that complex, daily variability will be sorted with lion batteries. Seasonal variation and unusual lulls will be met with demand shedding (no, we don't need to make Hydrogen 24x7) and interconnectors, plus the rump of the fossil fuel brigade.

This stuff has been thought out and modeled excessively, it's there for the finding.

So 'storage' will be lithium ion batteries. We''ll rely on other nearby countries selling and delivering their surplus electricity at a reasonable price and keep burning gas or cut people off when it's not sunny or windy enough. 

Phew! I was getting worried we didn't have a sensible plan for a minute.  

JKenH said:

ABrass said:

shinytop said:

ABrass said:

Great, new nuclear plants designs. Throw in a decade for design and prototyping delays and that would be 20 years away. We might as well wait for Fusion.

Also, electrolysers need cheap energy, nuclear isn't cheap and the industry doesn't seem to be insisting that constant power is needed based on the number of renewables plus electrolyser projects announced.

Isn't that because apart from nuclear, the industry builds what will make a profit, not what will ensure energy security?  There are no viable storage at scale projects in the pipeline because nobody is funding them.  The assumption was made that gas would fill the gaps in RE and look how well that has gone. 

I don't have the answer but we need a coherent plan that isn't just 'build more RE' and I don't see it.    

It isnt that complex, daily variability will be sorted with lion batteries. Seasonal variation and unusual lulls will be met with demand shedding (no, we don't need to make Hydrogen 24x7) and interconnectors, plus the rump of the fossil fuel brigade.

This stuff has been thought out and modeled excessively, it's there for the finding.

I wonder if the model made provision for Putin invading Ukraine or Covid or whatever the next few years might throw at us.

Yes our reliance on Gas has really caused us pain. The byline of the fossil fuel fan shas been 'keeping the lights on'. Which is nice I hope we can afford to.

michaels

I believe we also reply on imported oil for our vehicles - perhaps we should turn the whole countryside over to biodiesel crops so we don't have to rely on imports - oh and we had better close all the nuke stations as I believe there is not too much uranium mined in the UK....

JKenH

'Hollow Mountain': The key to unlocking Britain's energy security

Turbines beneath the Scottish Highlands are poised to drive a revolution

Another article from the  (supposedly) RE hating Telegraph.

Drax’s expansion plans would add a second, parallel pumping facility connected to the same reservoir, increasing Cruachan’s peak output from 440 megawatts to about 1 gigawatt. It would also potentially provide more “spin mode” capacity for the National Grid, should it be needed.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/03/19/hollow-mountain-key-unlocking-britains-energy-security/

EricMears

JKenH said:

'Hollow Mountain': The key to unlocking Britain's energy security

Turbines beneath the Scottish Highlands are poised to drive a revolution

Another article from the  (supposedly) RE hating Telegraph.

Drax’s expansion plans would add a second, parallel pumping facility connected to the same reservoir, increasing Cruachan’s peak output from 440 megawatts to about 1 gigawatt. It would also potentially provide more “spin mode” capacity for the National Grid, should it be needed.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/03/19/hollow-mountain-key-unlocking-britains-energy-security/

Not sure whether they're RE haters or not : I can't read their story without starting a 'free trial' then having the hassle of cancelling it before they star charging !

But why rely on any newspaper when you can read the original press release that the DT will no doubt have 'simplified' (or scrambled ?).
https://www.drax.com/news

Or at least you ought to be able to see it there !  No doubt they'll update the page eventually.

EricMears

EricMears said:

But why rely on any newspaper when you can read the original press release that the DT will no doubt have 'simplified' (or scrambled ?).
https://www.drax.com/news

Or at least you ought to be able to see it there !  No doubt they'll update the page eventually.

Perhaps DT have just caught up with this press release from last year ?
https://www.drax.com/press_release/drax-kickstarts-planning-process-to-expand-its-iconic-hollow-mountain-cruachan-power-station

Cardew

For an interesting perspective on Britain's short and medium energy policy Adam Fleming interviews Lord Frost(of BREXIT infamy!) on Newscast. see https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0015g2f/newscast-series-2-17032022 (starts about 14:40 into programme)

JKenH

China's coal revival may soon slash our energy bills, but at a wicked ecological cost

Xi Jinping’s return to coal is alarming for those who take global warming seriously

It would be a grim irony if the Chinese Communist Party rescues Europe from an energy shock this year by shovelling wagons of coal from the mines of Shanxi and Inner Mongolia, trashing the planet in the process.

Citigroup thinks this is exactly what may now happen. Surging coal use in China will displace imports of liquefied natural gas (LNG) used in power plants, freeing up hydrocarbons for the rest of the world.  

Citigroup is telling clients that global gas prices could fall as fast as they rose, plummeting over the second half of this year as diverted LNG floods the world market. It has pencilled in European gas prices of $10 per Metric Million British Thermal Unit (MMBtu) or lower by the summer, down from a peak of $110 at the height of the winter crisis.

The lurch from scarcity to glut might endure for longer than consensus now imagines, leaving a graveyard of white elephants and stranded assets if Western states rush into marginal fossil projects. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/03/25/chinas-coal-revival-may-soon-slash-energy-bills-wicked-ecological/

JKenH

In-depth: For 2022, China wants to balance climate ambitions with energy security

https://liuhongqiao.substack.com/p/in-depth-for-2022-china-wants-to