The Alternative Green Energy Thread

JKenH

Government to fund new nuclear power station as part of Net Zero drive

Ministers promise to agree financing during the current parliament, with proposed Sizewell C plant the front-runner to gain taxpayer funding

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/17/exclusive-government-fund-new-nuclear-power-station-part-net/

shinytop

JKenH said:

Tidal power turbocharges hopes for shift to renewables

Article on tidal power in today’s Telegraph. Too long to copy in full but quite bullish on prospects.

That tenacity has paid off. According to Orec’s analysis, the cost of tidal power will fall to £90 per megawatt hour once 1 gigawatt of generating capacity is installed worldwide. That puts it in the same price bracket as energy coming from UK nuclear plants.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/10/17/tidal-power-turbocharges-hopes-shift-renewables1/

This is much more appealing than relying totally on cheap but unreliable types of RE or interconnectors/gas supplies from unreliable foreign regimes. I think the tide varies a bit but never actually stops going in and out. 

EricMears

shinytop said:

I think the tide varies a bit but never actually stops going in and out. 

It does actually stop - albeit only for a few seconds - but also has negligible movement for around an hour at either extremity.  But that should be fairly easy to overcome with some sort of battery backup which would probably be needed anyway as peak generation at mid tide is likely to be far greater than average output.

Cardew

JKenH said:

The climate change cult now owes more to religion than rationality

Opinion piece in the Telegraph. (Extracts)

And yet there is something about this movement that is so suspiciously imitative of an extreme religious cult that it is very hard to see how it could be compatible with the spirit of scientific endeavour. Climate campaigning, at least in its most well-publicised form, embodies everything that one would expect to see in a movement of fanatical fundamentalist fervour: the concept of original sin (industrialisation) that requires an acceptance of universal guilt which can only be expiated through self-denial and penance (sacrificing personal prosperity and freedoms).

The political establishments of the grown-up developed world are now promulgating accusations and vengeful warnings delivered by child saints of the terrible world-destroying punishments to come if their cries of woe are not heeded. All of this is somehow incongruous: a bizarre melding of modern media and the Middle Ages.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/16/climate-change-cult-now-owes-religion-rationality/

Surely those must be two of the best paragraphs on the subject ever written.

You can see evidence of conversion in this section of MSE. Some posters whose sole interest initially was cashing in on the generous solar Feed in Tariff subsidy have joined the movement and their opposition to Nuclear energy is reminiscent of the Aldermaston marches and the Green Greenham Common ladies.

ABrass

Cardew said:

JKenH said:

The climate change cult now owes more to religion than rationality

Opinion piece in the Telegraph. (Extracts)

And yet there is something about this movement that is so suspiciously imitative of an extreme religious cult that it is very hard to see how it could be compatible with the spirit of scientific endeavour. Climate campaigning, at least in its most well-publicised form, embodies everything that one would expect to see in a movement of fanatical fundamentalist fervour: the concept of original sin (industrialisation) that requires an acceptance of universal guilt which can only be expiated through self-denial and penance (sacrificing personal prosperity and freedoms).

The political establishments of the grown-up developed world are now promulgating accusations and vengeful warnings delivered by child saints of the terrible world-destroying punishments to come if their cries of woe are not heeded. All of this is somehow incongruous: a bizarre melding of modern media and the Middle Ages.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/16/climate-change-cult-now-owes-religion-rationality/

Surely those must be two of the best paragraphs on the subject ever written.

You can see evidence of conversion in this section of MSE. Some posters whose sole interest initially was cashing in on the generous solar Feed in Tariff subsidy have joined the movement and their opposition to Nuclear energy is reminiscent of the Aldermaston marches and the Green Greenham Common ladies.

It says nothing more than 'I don't like Greta thunberg'. It's the usual hot air from the Telegraph. They don't trust anything more modern than Town Gas.

shinytop

ABrass said:

Cardew said:

JKenH said:

The climate change cult now owes more to religion than rationality

Opinion piece in the Telegraph. (Extracts)

And yet there is something about this movement that is so suspiciously imitative of an extreme religious cult that it is very hard to see how it could be compatible with the spirit of scientific endeavour. Climate campaigning, at least in its most well-publicised form, embodies everything that one would expect to see in a movement of fanatical fundamentalist fervour: the concept of original sin (industrialisation) that requires an acceptance of universal guilt which can only be expiated through self-denial and penance (sacrificing personal prosperity and freedoms).

The political establishments of the grown-up developed world are now promulgating accusations and vengeful warnings delivered by child saints of the terrible world-destroying punishments to come if their cries of woe are not heeded. All of this is somehow incongruous: a bizarre melding of modern media and the Middle Ages.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/16/climate-change-cult-now-owes-religion-rationality/

Surely those must be two of the best paragraphs on the subject ever written.

You can see evidence of conversion in this section of MSE. Some posters whose sole interest initially was cashing in on the generous solar Feed in Tariff subsidy have joined the movement and their opposition to Nuclear energy is reminiscent of the Aldermaston marches and the Green Greenham Common ladies.

It says nothing more than 'I don't like Greta thunberg'. It's the usual hot air from the Telegraph. They don't trust anything more modern than Town Gas.

It's another point of view, like some of the more radical environmental publications often quoted here.  I think other points of view are still allowed, although the normal reaction these days is to just shout them down.  As Desmond Tutu said, "don't raise your voice, improve your argument".

ABrass

shinytop said:

ABrass said:

Cardew said:

JKenH said:

The climate change cult now owes more to religion than rationality

Opinion piece in the Telegraph. (Extracts)

And yet there is something about this movement that is so suspiciously imitative of an extreme religious cult that it is very hard to see how it could be compatible with the spirit of scientific endeavour. Climate campaigning, at least in its most well-publicised form, embodies everything that one would expect to see in a movement of fanatical fundamentalist fervour: the concept of original sin (industrialisation) that requires an acceptance of universal guilt which can only be expiated through self-denial and penance (sacrificing personal prosperity and freedoms).

The political establishments of the grown-up developed world are now promulgating accusations and vengeful warnings delivered by child saints of the terrible world-destroying punishments to come if their cries of woe are not heeded. All of this is somehow incongruous: a bizarre melding of modern media and the Middle Ages.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/16/climate-change-cult-now-owes-religion-rationality/

Surely those must be two of the best paragraphs on the subject ever written.

You can see evidence of conversion in this section of MSE. Some posters whose sole interest initially was cashing in on the generous solar Feed in Tariff subsidy have joined the movement and their opposition to Nuclear energy is reminiscent of the Aldermaston marches and the Green Greenham Common ladies.

It says nothing more than 'I don't like Greta thunberg'. It's the usual hot air from the Telegraph. They don't trust anything more modern than Town Gas.

It's another point of view, like some of the more radical environmental publications often quoted here.  I think other points of view are still allowed, although the normal reaction these days is to just shout them down.  As Desmond Tutu said, "don't raise your voice, improve your argument".

And yet there's no argument in that article, just ranting. The climate change is a religion line of !!!!!! has been around for decades. In fairness it has changed from the 'climate change is !!!!!!, it isn't happening' to 'its not human influenced' to it's current state of 'we just don't want to change'.

People and companies are allowed their own views. And people are allowed to point out their views are silly. The Telegraph thinks addressing climate change is a fad, I think the Telegraph has a long history of claiming it doesn't exist, especially in their opinion pieces.

JKenH

ABrass said:

Cardew said:

JKenH said:

The climate change cult now owes more to religion than rationality

Opinion piece in the Telegraph. (Extracts)

And yet there is something about this movement that is so suspiciously imitative of an extreme religious cult that it is very hard to see how it could be compatible with the spirit of scientific endeavour. Climate campaigning, at least in its most well-publicised form, embodies everything that one would expect to see in a movement of fanatical fundamentalist fervour: the concept of original sin (industrialisation) that requires an acceptance of universal guilt which can only be expiated through self-denial and penance (sacrificing personal prosperity and freedoms).

The political establishments of the grown-up developed world are now promulgating accusations and vengeful warnings delivered by child saints of the terrible world-destroying punishments to come if their cries of woe are not heeded. All of this is somehow incongruous: a bizarre melding of modern media and the Middle Ages.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/16/climate-change-cult-now-owes-religion-rationality/

Surely those must be two of the best paragraphs on the subject ever written.

You can see evidence of conversion in this section of MSE. Some posters whose sole interest initially was cashing in on the generous solar Feed in Tariff subsidy have joined the movement and their opposition to Nuclear energy is reminiscent of the Aldermaston marches and the Green Greenham Common ladies.

It says nothing more than 'I don't like Greta thunberg'. It's the usual hot air from the Telegraph. They don't trust anything more modern than Town Gas.

I think it says a lot more than 'I don't like Greta thunberg'. Rather than fall back on stereotypes if you were to actually read the Telegraph you would realise that the bulk of their reporting is pro renewables. Maybe have a look at the other links I posted yesterday (on the IEA or tidal power) or try this one

We are living through a fossil fuel shock, but make no mistake: net zero is the solution - not the problem https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/15/europes-energy-crisis-queers-pitch-horribly-cop26/

JKenH

ABrass said:

shinytop said:

ABrass said:

Cardew said:

JKenH said:

The climate change cult now owes more to religion than rationality

Opinion piece in the Telegraph. (Extracts)

And yet there is something about this movement that is so suspiciously imitative of an extreme religious cult that it is very hard to see how it could be compatible with the spirit of scientific endeavour. Climate campaigning, at least in its most well-publicised form, embodies everything that one would expect to see in a movement of fanatical fundamentalist fervour: the concept of original sin (industrialisation) that requires an acceptance of universal guilt which can only be expiated through self-denial and penance (sacrificing personal prosperity and freedoms).

The political establishments of the grown-up developed world are now promulgating accusations and vengeful warnings delivered by child saints of the terrible world-destroying punishments to come if their cries of woe are not heeded. All of this is somehow incongruous: a bizarre melding of modern media and the Middle Ages.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/16/climate-change-cult-now-owes-religion-rationality/

Surely those must be two of the best paragraphs on the subject ever written.

You can see evidence of conversion in this section of MSE. Some posters whose sole interest initially was cashing in on the generous solar Feed in Tariff subsidy have joined the movement and their opposition to Nuclear energy is reminiscent of the Aldermaston marches and the Green Greenham Common ladies.

It says nothing more than 'I don't like Greta thunberg'. It's the usual hot air from the Telegraph. They don't trust anything more modern than Town Gas.

It's another point of view, like some of the more radical environmental publications often quoted here.  I think other points of view are still allowed, although the normal reaction these days is to just shout them down.  As Desmond Tutu said, "don't raise your voice, improve your argument".

And yet there's no argument in that article, just ranting. The climate change is a religion line of !!!!!! has been around for decades. In fairness it has changed from the 'climate change is !!!!!!, it isn't happening' to 'its not human influenced' to it's current state of 'we just don't want to change'.

People and companies are allowed their own views. And people are allowed to point out their views are silly. The Telegraph thinks addressing climate change is a fad, I think the Telegraph has a long history of claiming it doesn't exist, especially in their opinion pieces.

There is a difference between recognising there is a problem with the Earth’s climate that needs addressing with open debate which is positive and the more negative fundamentalists’ view that they are the only people who can save the world and the problem is all Big Oil/Capitalism’s fault and someone has to be brought to book for it. The latter approach only polarises attitudes and is destructive to society. 

We are where we are and we can either move forward positively or we can drum up a climate of fear and hatred. We still need oil and gas during this transition (Joe Biden even pleaded for more oil to be pumped) and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous. Burning oil and coal has brought us here but would we do it again if in 1800 we knew in 2100 temperatures were going to be 2C higher? Of course we would. Industrialisation brings prosperity and with it economic, military and political power. 

It’s easy when you are the beneficiary of that legacy to say I would have done it differently but if you lived in India or China now what would you choose?

JKenH

The climate activists who want Norway to end oil and gas production

The climate activists who want Norway to end oil and gas production

As world leaders prepare for the COP26 climate summit in Glasgow in November, soaring gas prices in Europe have exposed the continent’s deep dependence on fossil fuels. Young climate activists in Norway are asking European judges to stop their government allowing more drilling for oil and gas. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-58900652

This really sums up what I was saying. Young activists in Norway whose wealth is founded on oil and gas now reject that legacy. 

What financed Norway’s massive sovereign wealth fund, paid for their education and the heavily subsidised electric cars their parents drive? 

Are these young activists right? Probably they are in this case, but what works for Norway (and parts of Central and southern America) won’t work for the rest of the world and the media should be careful about using Norway as the perfect model for the rest of us. Instead what the media will do is beatify these climate activists as they did with Saint Greta.

Actually, I personally think Norway’s hypocrisy is astounding. They could have left that wealth in the ground. Instead they pocketed it as other nations did and would have done and their population prospered. Now, with all the reasons why they should leave the rest of the oil and gas underground (as their young people say) they want to get richer and richer on it while using their wealth to show the rest of the world how green they are and we should be. They don’t need oil and gas domestically (at least not much) as they have hydro electricity and an inter connector to take our surplus wind but they want the money (and as these students grow up and some gain executive power they will realise that money comes in handy).