The Alternative Green Energy Thread

JKenH

Exiled_Tyke said:

And finally (and admittedly anecdotally) every (and I mean every) individual I've spoken to on the subject who's investing in RE whether in shares, funds or domestically isn't expecting great returns (and certainly not better returns than oil companies are making) but a belief that it's the right thing to do. . 

I’m pleased you’ve cleared that up. It used to be suggested that ESG investments would produce better returns than investing in oil companies as they would rapidly be going out of business. Or was that just some misinformation provided by the green (anti oil) media? 

JKenH

Exiled_Tyke said:

So people need to be encouraged into making the right decisions? That's as it always has been. People have multiple issues to cope with (the cost of living being a major one).  We only moved away from leaded fuel to unleaded when government incentivised the change. We are by nature short termist in our need to survive in the short term. For many of the households I've worked with over the last few years this isn't about choice or being bribed by government. It's about making ends meet.  So we have to find ways of facilitating that change and government must take responsibility in making that happen. 

So really it didn’t matter how much disinformation was put out by the oil companies, changing our behaviour was all down to governments. 

You may recall Margaret Thatcher made a speech to the United Nations in 1989 on the risk to the environment from climate change. Governments can hardly say they weren’t aware of the problem.

JKenH

I just thought I would post this article just to demonstrate how spectacularly wrong predictions about the future can be. I won’t quote the 18 examples but just the conclusion 

18 Spectacularly Wrong Predictions Were Made Around the Time of the First Earth Day in 1970, Expect More This Year

What will Earth look like when Earth Day 60 rolls around in 2030?

Bailey predicts a much cleaner, and much richer future world, with less hunger and malnutrition, less poverty, longer life expectancy, and lower mineral and metal prices. But he makes one final prediction about Earth Day 2030: “There will be a disproportionately influential group of doomsters predicting that the future – and the present – never looked so bleak.” In other words, the hype, hysteria, and spectacularly wrong apocalyptic predictions will continue, promoted by virtue-signaling “environmental grievance hustlers” like AOC, who said several years ago that we have “only 12 years left to stop the worst impacts of climate change.”

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/18-spectacularly-wrong-predictions-were-made-around-the-time-of-the-first-earth-day-in-1970-expect-more-this-year/

Cardew

Exiled_Tyke said:

Again you miss the point and also seem to miss the purpose of this area of the MSE boards on being green and ethical.  So people need to be encouraged into making the right decisions? That's as it always has been. 

Post #1 of this thread:

JKenH Posts: 4,455 

 Forumite

18 November 2019 at 5:18PM

In an attempt to maintain harmony on Martyn1981’s Green, Ethical, Energy issues in the news thread, Mart and I have agreed that I will no longer contribute to that thread but instead start a separate thread which Mart has agreed not to participate on.

The intention of the thread is that green energy issues can be discussed in an open and less prescriptive manner. While most people will continue to use the original thread you are free to post on here on any green energy topic including electric cars.

To avoid some of the acrimony that has arisen on the original thread could I request please that contributors endeavour to be courteous in their posts and their language and avoid pejorative comments. If you want to be rude and use bad language please post elsewhere. Thank you.

JKenH

Interesting to note that emissions were higher today through the early hours of the day than during peak demand. 

https://www.electricinsights.co.uk/#/dashboard?start=2023-12-06&&_k=izu8o7

michaels

JKenH said:

Interesting to note that emissions were higher today through the early hours of the day than during peak demand. 

https://www.electricinsights.co.uk/#/dashboard?start=2023-12-06&&_k=izu8o7

Not much alignment between the graph and the numbers, I wonder which is correct?

QrizB

michaels said:

Not much alignment between the graph and the numbers, I wonder which is correct?

The table on the left is showing the daily average.

The cursor on the chart is showing the reading at that point.

michaels

QrizB said:

michaels said:

Not much alignment between the graph and the numbers, I wonder which is correct?

The table on the left is showing the daily average.

The cursor on the chart is showing the reading at that point.

But the red line at the point of the higher overnight reading is lower than the red line for the lower day reading?

JKenH

michaels said:

QrizB said:

michaels said:

Not much alignment between the graph and the numbers, I wonder which is correct?

The table on the left is showing the daily average.

The cursor on the chart is showing the reading at that point.

But the red line at the point of the higher overnight reading is lower than the red line for the lower day reading?

The red line is the total emissions in tonnes/hour (a function of kWh and grams of CO2) whereas the numbers are g/kWh. The y axis starts at 8000 t/hour so the graph is compressed as well which makes the rise in late afternoon more appear more dramatic. I have always thought it would make more sense to use g/kWh for the graph just like they do for the numbers. That way you could see when the grid is cleanest without needing to click at various times. 

michaels

JKenH said:

michaels said:

QrizB said:

michaels said:

Not much alignment between the graph and the numbers, I wonder which is correct?

The table on the left is showing the daily average.

The cursor on the chart is showing the reading at that point.

But the red line at the point of the higher overnight reading is lower than the red line for the lower day reading?

The red line is the total emissions in tonnes/hour (a function of kWh and grams of CO2) whereas the numbers are g/kWh. The y axis starts at 8000 t/hour so the graph is compressed as well which makes the rise in late afternoon more appear more dramatic. I have always thought it would make more sense to use g/kWh for the graph just like they do for the numbers. That way you could see when the grid is cleanest without needing to click at various times. 

Thanks, I had completely missed that  Is it only me who thinks it is 'unusual' to have the labels representing different data from the line they are linked to?!

Do the data and lines align for all the other measures?