PCM - Only received Keeper Liability

Lion-King

Hi

Just stumbled across your super helpful website and am hoping you can provide me with some much needed assistance! Please note I have checked the newbies thread but could not find a similar situation whereby a parking charge has not been issued nor NTK sent only a Keeper Liability received.

As the title suggests we received a Keeper Liability Notice demanding we pay £100 penalty charge notice and it also suggests that 28 days have now passed since the NK was sent out. To clarify this is the only correspondence we have had. There was no ticket on the windscreen, maybe because the vehicle was occupied! There was no NTK ever received.

The car was parked on one side of a petrol station forecourt. There were no visible signs where the vehicle was parked only the usual big petrol station sign showing the prices etc even that had scaffolding along the whole wall in front of it.

There were no photos attached to the Keeper Liability but it stated these could be viewed online. Upon viewing the photos which were clearly taken by a manual phone camera it is clear to see that where the vehicle is parked there is scaffolding along the whole of that wall. Having had a look a sign appearing to look like PCM's is sneakily hidden side facing behind the scaffolding. Its hidden, side facing and not at eye level!

We did not see the sign so no contract was formed. The contravention they are alleging is Parking in an area reserved for patrons whilst on the premises only.

They have given us 14 day to pay which I think lapses on Wednesday 20th. We would really appreciate some advice as to what we do next.

Thanking you in advance.

Umkomaas

1. Appeal it using the blue text template in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1. Do not bother with their second stage appeal to the IAS.

2. Ignore anything else, apart from a formal Letter of Claim and/or a Court Claim.

3. Come back on this thread if you get either.

That's about it, unless you can make contact with the landowner and see if they will intervene.

Coupon-mad

Also email a SAR to PCM's data protection officer (LOL, can you imagine them having one, after seeing their dingy office of clueless 'rogue trader' staff outed on Watchdog a few years back!).

Ask for copies of all letters sent and all photos taken and all data held and processes, including file notes and status reports within any database.

You know from the NEWBIES thread how to find the email of any PPC DPO.

The_Deep

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP after the election, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]

Lion-King

Hi have copied all blue text and added an additional line in para 2. Hope this is ok? Also is it worth confirming anywhere that no windscreen ticket nor NTK was ever received by the Keeper?

Draft: -

Re: PCN Number:


I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. It is for you to establish the reasons the vehicle was there and that your signage was adequate. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

In all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,

Umkomaas

It is for you to establish the reasons the vehicle was there

I'm not sure what point you're making. Surely the PPC won't know this, only the driver would know the reason the vehicle was there?

Lion-King

Umkomaas wrote: »

I'm not sure what point you're making. Surely the PPC won't know this, only the driver would know the reason the vehicle was there?

Apologies. Will submit it as it is minus the additional sentence. Is it worth stating though that no windscreen ticket or NTK was received? Or is there simply no point doing this?

Thank you

KeithP

Lion-King wrote: »

Is it worth stating though that no windscreen ticket or NTK was received? Or is there simply no point doing this?

Simply no point.

It is a commonly held belief that no-one bothers to read appeals.

dadsma

My pal had the same story with those scammers in early December. He received a Keeper Liability Notice but never got a pcn or Notice to Keeper. He sent the newbies letter and hasn’t heard anything since then.