Responsibility for correct electric meter in a council property.

Perry162

Hi all,

First post here, im trying to help my friend get out of financial difficulty with her bills etc.

Looking at her council property, where she has resided for over 6 years, I’ve discovered she has an economy 7 electric meter and has done since moving in. When she moved in she had a gas combi boiler (no tank) and gas fired radiators, no electric storage heaters to be seen anywhere.

She had no idea what economy 7 means and didn’t realise It was unsuitable for her property and that it was costing her more in electric.

I’ve spoken to British Gas for her who said they are not responsible for this as they do not know the property, which I completely understand. However what I don’t understand is, if she’s been providing meter readings for 6 years which show much higher usage in the day, than at night, surely someone should have flagged up that she’s on the wrong meter. Especially considering she has to apply for the warm home discount every winter to get by.

Can anyone tell me with any certainty whether the council would be liable for this error as they didn’t ensure the meter was fit for the property before she moved in?

I feel we should still complain to British Gas for not flagging it up, and therefore extorting a single mother for all this time without offering to look into further options?

But I’m sure the council must be liable to some extent. I’m a private renter and if I moved into a property and found that they had left me with an incorrect meter then I would see it as their fault.

I’m fortunate enough to understand a lot about energy billing and the meters but I’m sure that most of the population in this country have no clue really.

I’m hoping someone can point me in the right direction,

TIA

Gerry1

Not to put too fine a point on it, don't waste your time because nobody has done anything wrong or failed to undertake their responsibilities. It's simply not the council's business to nanny tenants about the meter or tariff that they should use; what suits one person may not suit another. Nor are energy companies obliged to switch people to their cheapest tariff.

Instead, you should be constructive and help her switch to a more suitable tariff. Note that this doesn't necessarily need a meter change, because many suppliers will just add the two readings together and charge a single rate. The council might also consider that changing the meter represented an alteration to the property and might require it to be changed back at the end of the tenancy.

In any case, just because you don't have storage heaters doesn't mean that E7 is inappropriate. I have gas CH, an E7 meter and no storage heaters, but I've chosen Yorkshire Energy which is cheaper on E7.

Neil_Jones

Perry162 wrote: »

Hi all,

First post here, im trying to help my friend get out of financial difficulty with her bills etc.

Looking at her council property, where she has resided for over 6 years, I’ve discovered she has an economy 7 electric meter and has done since moving in. When she moved in she had a gas combi boiler (no tank) and gas fired radiators, no electric storage heaters to be seen anywhere.

She had no idea what economy 7 means and didn’t realise It was unsuitable for her property and that it was costing her more in electric.

I’ve spoken to British Gas for her who said they are not responsible for this as they do not know the property, which I completely understand. However what I don’t understand is, if she’s been providing meter readings for 6 years which show much higher usage in the day, than at night, surely someone should have flagged up that she’s on the wrong meter. Especially considering she has to apply for the warm home discount every winter to get by.

Can anyone tell me with any certainty whether the council would be liable for this error as they didn’t ensure the meter was fit for the property before she moved in?

I feel we should still complain to British Gas for not flagging it up, and therefore extorting a single mother for all this time without offering to look into further options?

But I’m sure the council must be liable to some extent. I’m a private renter and if I moved into a property and found that they had left me with an incorrect meter then I would see it as their fault.

I’m fortunate enough to understand a lot about energy billing and the meters but I’m sure that most of the population in this country have no clue really.

I’m hoping someone can point me in the right direction,

TIA

As a general rule anything to do with the supply and the meter itself is the responsibility of the local distributor, and anything on "this"/inside side of the meter (ie the fuse box, the electrics in the flat themselves including the plugs and the wiring) is the council's responsibility.

It is not the council's fault that your friend is on the wrong meter and ultimately the wrong tariff, that is her responsibility. If your friend worked nights then the cheaper rate would have been in her favour on her off days. Likewise British Gas is a company at the end of the day, its aim is to make money. Its not their fault your friend is on the wrong tariff.

Perhaps you should take this opportunity to switch tariff and/or meter and educate your friend, ignorance is unfortunately no defence and apathy is a curse given half a chance.

Perry162

Thanks for your reply Gerry.

I completely get that tenants are responsible for their energy and meters however I would have thought that the council should have ensured the correct meter for the property was in place at the start of the tenancy.

I’ve never rented a property with E7 that doesn’t have storage heaters and a water tank and neither have I ever rented a property without E7 that has the above.

It seems negligent to me but maybe that’s not the case lawfully. It makes me sick to my stomach to think how much more she’s paid for electric over 6 years than she should have. I rent a house 3 miles away, with 4 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms and my gas/electric is £80 per month and I’m always in credit. Her electric only is £65 a month without adding on gas as well and her property is a small 2 bed with 1 bathroom. It shows how much more she’s been paying unnecessarily and has got her into so much debt.

Thanks

Gerry1

Don't forget to check whether separate suppliers for gas and electricity work out cheaper than dual fuel, and whether single rate is cheaper than E7. Lots of iterations to cover all the combinations, but the savings can make the extra effort well worthwhile. Make sure you are comparing annual kWh costs based on actual meter readings, forget monthly DD amounts and ignore all claims about alleged savings.

What's really needed is a whole of the market price comparison website that does all that work in one go !

Neil_Jones

Perry162 wrote: »

I would have thought that the council should have ensured the correct meter for the property was in place at the start of the tenancy.

Not the council's responsibility. Simple as. Only requirement is that the installation and the electrics are safe.

It seems negligent to me but maybe that’s not the case lawfully. It makes me sick to my stomach to think how much more she’s paid for electric over 6 years than she should have

It's not negligent on the council/supplier part, its negligence on her part for being on the wrong tariff for six years. Nobody's fault but your friend.

I rent a house 3 miles away, with 4 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms and my gas/electric is £80 per month and I’m always in credit. Her electric only is £65 a month without adding on gas as well and her property is a small 2 bed with 1 bathroom. It shows how much more she’s been paying unnecessarily and has got her into so much debt.

I sympathise but again, the situation is of her own making by being on the wrong tariff for all this time.
With all due respect I don't know what else you want to be told. There is nobody else to blame, nobody's done anything wrong.

Robin9

Perry162 wrote: »

............. It shows how much more she’s been paying unnecessarily and has got her into so much debt.

Thanks

There are other things to take into account - lifestyle, insulation, tariff, does she use an on peak elec fire rather than the gas c/h.

Do you know what elec and gas tariffs she is on and if the meter readings are actual or estimated.

Give us some meter readings from 12 months ago and today and we may be able to advise more.

While you are at it look at her insurances.

Perry162

Hi robin, I’ve looked at her actual yearly usage over the last years and it’s very low, about standard for a 1 bedroom house/flat. No electric heaters. Just has CH and water hence the E7 is absolutely not appropriate for the usage.

She is on the cheapest tariff for both meters but obviously where the E7 tariff is nearly 4x per KWh in the day than at night, that’s where the price is being hiked so much.

I’m savvy with switching, usage and finding the cheapest tariffs. My query here was regarding the incorrect placement of an E7 meter.

I could probably gather up 100 people in my locality and ask them if they know the ins and outs of an E7 meter and I bet a low percentage would know what one is.

I just feel for my friend having struggled for all this time without knowing she’s on an unsuitable meter and as much as it may be her responsibility, I feel more information should he given to tenants if they want to put the blame on them. I don’t remember being taught at school what an E7 meter is so god knows how companies/councils/landlords expect people to just know these things.

Blackpool_Saver

It does seem rather odd that they would remove the storage heaters and install modern gas central heating, but leave the meters in as economy 7.
A previous poster said that they get round that now by adding the 2 tariffs together and charging one single 'normal' tariff, has this happened? Have you actually had sight of bills and tariffs?

Gerry1

Has she been getting the 25% reduction in council tax? Unlike the electricity bills, it may be possible to claim back any overpayments.

She may also be eligible for Council Tax Reduction.

Gerry1

Blackpool_Saver wrote: »

A previous poster said that they get round that now by adding the 2 tariffs together and charging one single 'normal' tariff, has this happened? Have you actually had sight of bills and tariffs?

I've had an E7 meter since the late 1980s and changed suppliers umpteen times. I've often had single rate, some of the most recent being Bulb and Avro. However, Bulb are now unhelpful and no longer offer single rate on E7 meters.