Re wills and IHT on first death

Eco_Miser

joe134 wrote: »

Even now, we penny pinch, it’s inbuilt, cannot change.
To go and splash out now, just to avoid IHT , goes against our values.

I have the same problem. I'm slowly learning to pamper myself more, eg when going on a day trip, I buy lunch, instead of packing one myself - means proper hot food instead of a soggy sandwich.
You've saved long and hard for a rainy day - time to buy the umbrella, wellingtons, and Gore-Tex outerwear.:D

Land_Registry

joe134 wrote: »

Thank you very much LR, that’s very helpfull.
So when one of us dies, the other does not have to notify the LR , it auto goes to the spouse in my case ?
When the last one dies, do the executors, (ie. the kids,in our case ) who will inherit the house to sell, have to register the house in their names to sell it, or can they sell it as it stands, (still in our names) as part of our estate, after probate has been granted?
Thanks for posting on the other site, as this was so far advanced, it seemed logical to stay with this thread, which has been very helpfull indeed.
:beer:

Probate is required when the last surviving registered proprietor dies. The property forms part of the deceased's estate so probate enables the executor(s) to then deal with that estate.

There is no requirement to register the executor(s) when selling. The buyer will rely on for example your death certificate and your widow's probate to confirm the order of deaths.

As an aside it is important to recognise that wills/trusts focus on your beneficial ownerships. The land register deals with your legal ownership. Whilst the former can affect the latter, hence a form A restriction for example might be applied for, there is a clear distinction.

The easiest way I find to describe it is that the legal ownership relates to the land and bricks & mortar. They can't be split/divided into shares so you can't leave say half the land and half the bricks & mortar to each child.

The beneficial ownership however is in the actual value of the land and bricks & mortar. And £s and ps can be split/shared so that following a sale the £300K can be split say 50/50.

For that reason the legal ownership passes to the surviving joint owner and then into his/her estate on death. It is always dealt with as a whole. Hope that helps

joe134

Land_Registry wrote: »

Probate is required when the last surviving registered proprietor dies. The property forms part of the deceased's estate so probate enables the executor(s) to then deal with that estate.

There is no requirement to register the executor(s) when selling. The buyer will rely on for example your death certificate and your widow's probate to confirm the order of deaths.

As an aside it is important to recognise that wills/trusts focus on your beneficial ownerships. The land register deals with your legal ownership. Whilst the former can affect the latter, hence a form A restriction for example might be applied for, there is a clear distinction.

The easiest way I find to describe it is that the legal ownership relates to the land and bricks & mortar. They can't be split/divided into shares so you can't leave say half the land and half the bricks & mortar to each child.

The beneficial ownership however is in the actual value of the land and bricks & mortar. And £s and ps can be split/shared so that following a sale the £300K can be split say 50/50.

For that reason the legal ownership passes to the surviving joint owner and then into his/her estate on death. It is always dealt with as a whole. Hope that helps

Thankyou once again LR, that is easier for me to understand, and made it clear.
Seems someone else on the other thread would benefit from this
Thank you once again.:beer:

bowlesbargain

joe134 wrote: »

Thankyou once again LR, that is easier for me to understand, and made it clear.
Seems someone else on the other thread would benefit from this
Thank you once again.:beer:

What other thread are you referring to I am trying to get get as much info for my daughter to help her in the future (I hope to not near future, hope distance time to come I hope for many years collecting my pension)
Our parents never had to worry about things like this they passed away not owing but not having assets to give away.
I have passed so money to my children and kept a note of the date and amount. Also I but unit trusts for my grandchildren out of my pension. How to I record such things to make it easier later on.
Sorry to ask all these questions.

joe134

bowlesbargain wrote: »

What other thread are you referring to I am trying to get get as much info for my daughter to help her in the future (I hope to not near future, hope distance time to come I hope for many years collecting my pension)
Our parents never had to worry about things like this they passed away not owing but not having assets to give away.
I have passed so money to my children and kept a note of the date and amount. Also I but unit trusts for my grandchildren out of my pension. How to I record such things to make it easier later on.
Sorry to ask all these questions.

Hi B, I. Did the same as you, I could not find it.
That’s why I posted it on this thread.
Scroll down the forums to,
“ household & travel”
Marriage, relationships & families
Deaths,funerals and probate.
However, I think you are on the right thread for what you want?
Hope you find it and it,s what you want:beer:

joe134

Hi Guys, I have just been doing a rough valuation for IHT purposes in case it has to be paid, or even if not, I believe they can require one.
Does one need to state everything?
Just priced wife’s 6 rings, and that’s just those over £1500 for insurance purposes, they stand at £22k.
Why would anyone state this, just to be taxed on it?
Wouldn’t, it better just to omit it and give it away .
The value of house and cash stand at £950k, £50k gifts within the seven years, without the jewellery and car etc in the house.
I do not believe in breaking the law, but they do not exactly encourage one to be truthful.
The house may be more or less, than the £350k I have thought of,without getting estate agents in, how does one know without having it valued.?
It,s only worth what someone will pay for it.
Has Hmrc got their own zoopla!
I know, yes.:rotfl:

eskbanker

joe134 wrote: »

Hi Guys, I have just been doing a rough valuation for IHT purposes in case it has to be paid, or even if not, I believe they can require one.
Does one need to state everything?
Just priced wife’s 6 rings, and that’s just those over £1500 for insurance purposes, they stand at £22k.
Why would anyone state this, just to be taxed on it?
Wouldn’t, it better just to omit it and give it away .
The value of house and cash stand at £950k, £50k gifts within the seven years, without the jewellery and car etc in the house.
I do not believe in breaking the law, but they do not exactly encourage one to be truthful.
The house may be more or less, than the £350k I have thought of,without getting estate agents in, how does one know without having it valued.?
It,s only worth what someone will pay for it.
Has Hmrc got their own zoopla!
I know, yes.:rotfl:

:eek:

It's obviously difficult for HMRC to independently validate estate values (as with many other figures declared formally to them) but that doesn't mean that you get to pick and choose what is in the estate of someone who's passed away, unless you're comfortable with fraudulent activities, contrary to your law-abiding assertion above!

So you can't (legally) simply decide to exempt some assets in order to try to evade tax - probably worth reading https://www.gov.uk/valuing-estate-of-someone-who-died....

joe134

Was not thinking of evading tax, (heaven forbid) just avoiding it, which I am sure is quite legal.,
Apparently, wife has decided who gets what with her jewellery, hope fully before she dies.
On can really only estimate a value.
Valuing is not exactly a science, and accurate, as I said, everything is only what what someone will pay for it ie: the house,car,etc
In fact, the whole estate, but it is only the house that will be sold, nowt else, the rest will be donated to the charity shop, which we donate to now, local hospice.

Apodemus

joe134 wrote: »

Just priced wife’s 6 rings, and that’s just those over £1500 for insurance purposes...

There is likely to be a big difference between the value for insurance purposes and the value for probate purposes. The first is the cost of replacing that exact item, with a new replacement. The second is what the existing one would fetch at auction. Retail mark-up on new jewellery is huge, and no-one gives their loved-one used jewellery, so the two values are very different.

joe134

Apodemus wrote: »

There is likely to be a big difference between the value for insurance purposes and the value for probate purposes. The first is the cost of replacing that exact item, with a new replacement. The second is what the existing one would fetch at auction. Retail mark-up on new jewellery is huge, and no-one gives their loved-one used jewellery, so the two values are very different.

Thanks A.
That was my point, it’s actual worth.
I hate it when insurance comes due, having to pay to value them, which always rises, not helping , as it increases premiums, and it cannot be replaced.
my wife uses our local jewellery shop, for years now, and chose a second hand ring instead of a new one for our anniversary.
We could not have bought a better diamond .
She part exchanges it often.
The taxman has had two lots of tax on a ring.
Income tax on wages to buy it, and vat on it.
Now they want another cut.
One cannot avoid death and taxes.
One does not want Hmrc on your back when just losing a loved one, demanding his pound of flesh first.
Seems dishonest to me, immoral, in fact illegal;)