V2H and V2G

Martyn1981

This is nice:



Anyone know how to make it bigger please?

Edit - Clean answers only please, if I wanted a double entendre, then I'd ask you to give me one.

Martyn1981

JKenH wrote: »

Yes, typo, I meant to say V2H is better deployed in that situation than V2G. I have corrected the original post.

Been pondering this some more, but only succeeded in going in circles.

It occurred to me that V2G can do V2H and more, but then I pondered what control homeowners might have with V2G, and thereby undermined my first thought as we (the royal 'we') might not have as much control over V2G.

Next I wondered about cost, both are expensive to deploy, so perhaps V2G gets the win, if some/all costs are covered by a scheme partner.

How about battery degradation, well V2G might involve more charging and discharging, but there is some evidence that this is good for the batts SoH. And then I immediately wondered if V2H might see more 'action' as daily use might exceed V2G shorter peaks .... or not (total headache).

And (as per your original question) also need to consider economics, and PV + V2H + PV/batt tariff might make for a great financial package.

The more I pondered, the less certain (of anything) I became.

GreatApe

Ideally you don't want to do any V2G because it's a loss and chemical degradation

I don't think this will be a big part of the future
For anyone who wants net metering of their solar they should just be given the option to pay for it
Rather than paying £5,000 for a battery have the option to pay £5,000 to the government who will for the fee allow you to use the grid for net metering for a period of 25 years

The advantage to this is many

1: Done in a day
2: No need to import expensive batteries
3: More energy efficient
4: Safer
5: Can move your net metering subscription to another house
6: Less pollution because it has no losses and also because you don't need to manufacture expensive heavy batteries

I'm sure there are many more reasons


As for buffering variable output wind this can be done with variable charging if the BEV fleet there isn't a necessity to have power flow back to the grid. Also specifically for the UK grid we are losing almost all the nukes and building two big links to Norway and banning gas in homes for new builds all this means any excess wind Curtailment will not be a significant issue for the next 8-10 years at least

joefizz

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Is this a joke ..... I'm starting to think you are just pulling my leg, and I suppose it is a bit funny?

I am winding you up to a certain extent Martyn.


I was serious though about the homework bit, its very simple for you to find out if they turned you down due to capacity. Forget everyone else, pv, v2g, v2h and whatever terms people use, all of the cases are individual.


I know why I probably wouldnt be approved for v2g and v2h and I know why someone else connected to me and the substation connection would probably be turned down for solar....
...youve already answered that bit for yourself on this thread, you just dont know it was your answer...


Everything else is immaterial if you cant get connected to the grid because it would cause problems with oversupply to your neighbours. I had to find this out myself the hard way (big hint if you read through previous threads).

Martyn1981

joefizz wrote: »

I am winding you up to a certain extent Martyn.

Cheers, it took me way too long to realise you were just a wind up, it was posting that nobody has grid connected batts, and in the very same post(s) talking about grid connected batts that gave you away.

I did think it weird that every time I post 'A', you'd pop on and say that no, 'B' doesn't work, that 'A' is the solution, and everyone on here is a bit ignorant for not knowing about 'A' and what they are talking about.

Can't believe I've wasted months on all these conversations that went in baffling circles and never made any sense. But in fairness, I've always found you a polite and friendly joker. Explains why I could never equate your endless negativity about all things BEV, with my belief that you kinda, sorta, support them.

You got me, I'll admit it. Well done.


@All - Hopefully (if Joe permits it) I'll try to update on this issue with anything I can find, so that we can learn what the problems are/might be, whether administrative or infrastructural. Fingers crossed I'll find out more next week. M.

Coastalwatch

Well, I'm glad you two have now resolved your various issues, it's been making my head spin trying to work out which was most plausible. Naturally I failed miserably.

I am aware of the possibilities that must be considered before giving approval to anything new with regard to domestic installation. From memory of my limited involvement in the process of approving a 100Amp switch to be placed before the Meter it was necessary to test it against a certain possible fault condition of making onto 16,000 volts without subsequently welding together. The Switch was set up on apparatus I can only describe as copper scaffold. We then had to retire to a bunker some fifty yards away from where the current was applied and switch thrown.

It all seemed over the top for what the switch would normally be subjected too but apparently if the property was adjacent to a sub station then a certain fault condition may occur whereby this could conceivably happen. Apparently!
Thus I've been at a loss to disbelieve anything either of you have posted here recently. Hence my relief that truce has been declared.:beer:

joefizz

Martyn1981 wrote: »

.

You got me, I'll admit it. Well done.

To be fair to everyone involved Martyn, one thing the last couple of months has done has been to expand the knowledge, rising tide lifts all boats etc.

Without this particular thread I doubt anyone (including yourself) would have realised that oversupply was an issue and most people (judging by previous postings here) just assume that 'the grid' would cope with anything thrown at it.
Like last summer with my going away and turning everything off at the sunniest time of the year and the first day I dumped 3.68kw into the grid it spiked voltage at almost 250 volts, set peoples house alarms off, reset neighbours ovens and microwave clocks, reset security lights (and tripped my freezers). My first port of call was with my DNO then temperature gradients and it wasnt until I checked mains supply voltage graphs I saw it. Back in August I could tie in periods of low usage, high export to my house alarm being tripped! I now know this is an issue for me and my neighbours and have taken steps to address it (not very green leaving loads on).
Most wont have experienced it because who goes away during holiday time, turning absolutely everything off during a period of national holidays here etc etc. Again to be fair to me I didnt think it would be an issue with that small a supply here either, despite having sat through an hour and a half talk 2 years ago explaining this exact same thing!
Experience is the thing you get 30 seconds after you needed it.

joefizz

Coastalwatch wrote: »

Hence my relief that truce has been declared.:beer:

Too early to wish everyone Happy Christmas? ;-)

Martyn1981

joefizz wrote: »

Without this particular thread I doubt anyone (including yourself) would have realised that oversupply was an issue and most people (judging by previous postings here) just assume that 'the grid' would cope with anything thrown at it.

Priceless Joe, great stuff. :rotfl:

Martyn1981

Martyn1981 wrote: »

So this happened ....... !!!

......

Slight problem with this, my understanding is that V2G is aimed to reduce peak loads on the DNO during high demand, not to export when demand is low and prices for that export are also low. Effectively, V2G doesn't export back to the substation, as it discharges when demand is high, and instead of substation export, actually reduces peak import ...... a good thing for DNO's ..... Shirley?

........

Plus:

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

They're probably being very wary of the potential for peak export when your demand is low, PV is still belting out loads of electrons on a summer evening and a V2G signal is sent to a fully charged car to help support the grid as a whole .... might have been different if the house supply hadn't already been approved for 16A+ of PV by the DNO.

HTH
Z

So ......, it seems what I've been describing as 'my biggest fear' is the problem, though I don't have all the information yet.

Basically, yes, they will sum the potential export, and I do appreciate why this is needed to protect from unwanted but potential errors, I just hoped it wasn't the case/problem with me.

Basically, if the V2G can export X, then that's to be added to what my PV could (theoretically) export (5.58-5.9kW).

But, whilst this is good news, as it's my problem, it does get somewhat worse for all the PV'ers out there, as potential (faulty even) export means the same problem of summing will apply to all such grid connected battery solutions, be they V2G, V2H or AC side domestic batts (DC side is OK, since the inverter caps total possible export) when the household applies to have them installed.

So, almost certain no V2G for me, and the same would apply to V2H and AC batts if I applied. The solution would be an export capping device, so some potential good news.

Side issue, if anyone is interested, I asked about the Tesla PWII as an example, and that is classed as 5kW (not the short peak 7kW).

Apologies that this is a bit 'bitty' and if I get more info / detail / background I'll update, but it does seem like PV and especially 'big' PV is a potential problem for storage on the AC side of said PV. Which is a bit of a downer especially as batts and V2H will have (I believe) a PV bias, but I suppose V2G has less PV bias?

I hope this has been interesting / useful, but of course as they say 'actual results will vary' so it will all depend on your circumstances and the DNO.