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Euro car parks - Notice to Keeper

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Hi All

I received a Parking Charge Notice today from Euro Car Parts and its demanding me to pay discounted rate of £50.00 if paid within 14 days. After this date, the full parking charge amount will be owed.

The incident happened on 24th October when we went out for a meal at this restaurant and parked at the opposite pub's car park. As it was dark and signage was not sufficient, I missed the signage. I have since been there to check and it states that I need to register my number plate at the pub etc which obviously I didn't do.

Date of Event - 25/10/2019
Date PCN issued - 11/11/2019

This car is on Personal Contract Hire where Hyundai is the registered keeper and owner of the vehicle however this letter has been sent to me.

I did not get a yellow ticket - just this PCN notice.
Having read some of the messages within the forum, I understand that if the private company sends the notice after 14 days, then I can appeal as the charge is not enforceable which it is in my case.

Am I correct with my understanding and therefore should I apply under those grounds?

I am just concerned that if they reject my appeal, then I hope I don't have to pay the full fee. I really don't want to go right up to court and fight. Could someone help / advise and point me to the right direction please?

Many thanks.
«13

Comments

  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 41,296 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I received a Parking Charge Notice today from Euro Car Parts...
    Crikey... that's different. :D
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,940 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    I understand that if the private company sends the notice after 14 days, then I can appeal as the charge is not enforceable which it is in my case.

    Am I correct with my understanding and therefore should I apply under those grounds?
    Nope, but close, as the POFA does apply and will win it for you in the end, but the deadline is different for hirer/lessee cases.

    Please use the second linked template appeal under the Company Hire car section of the first post of the NEWBIES sticky thread, and only choose HIRER/LESSEE in the dropdown menu.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Hello captainzorro.

    Euro Car Parks (ECP) will have first sent Hyundai a Notice to Keeper and in turn, Hyundai will have provided ECP with your details as the vehicle's hirer. In order to fully transfer liability to you, Hyundai should have also provided ECP with a copy of your hire agreement together with a statement signed by you under that hire agreement accepting liability for any unpaid private parking charges associated with the hire vehicle.

    ECP should have then reissued the PCN to you as a Notice to Hirer. In order to have the right under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) to hold you liable as the hirer, they must have delivered the Notice to Hirer within 21 days of receiving the hire agreement and associated documents. They must have also complied with all of the requirements of POFA - including sending you a copy of the hire agreement and statement of liability, together with a copy of the Notice to Keeper that they first issued to Hyundai.

    However, it looks like ECP have made their usual mistake of issuing the follow-up PCN to you (the hirer) in the form of a Notice to Keeper rather than a Notice to Hirer. I expect that the PCN refers to Paragraph 9 of Schedule 4 of POFA rather than the correct Paragraph 14 which is applicable to hire vehicles. This means that ECP have not complied with POFA and will not have the right to hold you liable as hirer.

    It's important not to reveal who was driving. Check out the Newbies sticky thread to learn more about this.

    Your first step is to "appeal" via ECP's website as per Coupon-Mad's instructions. You have 28 days from the 11/11/19 to do this - I suggest that you wait until Day 21 in order to make sure that ECP have no time to realise their mistake and reissue a correct Notice to Hirer.

    The next stage after that is to wait for ECP to reject your "appeal". They will give you a POPLA code and you can then use this to "appeal" to POPLA and get the PCN cancelled.

    In the meantime, you can have a look through the various threads on this Forum regarding hire vehicles.
  • Thank you very much for a helpful and detailed response. If I was to copy one of the templates and make some changes by Day 21, can I send over this forum for you to check before I send ?

    In the 'Notice to Keeper', they have stated the following:

    "On the 25/10/2019 you were the registered keeper of the vehicle or you have been named by the registered keeper as the driver/hirer at the time of a breach of terms and conditions of parking."

    Does the heading "NOTICE TO KEEPER" outweigh the statement above as they have mentioned hirer?
  • T




    Hi- this is what I am planning to send to Euro car parks following your advise - please can you advise if this is fine to send.

    To whom it may concern,

    Reference: Parking Charge Notice xxxxxxxxx : Vehicle Registration xxxxxxx

    I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to me by Euro Car Parks as a Notice to Hirer. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.

    You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why Euro Car Park's Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.

    Given that Euro Car Parks has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.

    Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.


    Yours faithfully,
  • All,

    I have received a response from Euro Car Parks as follows:
    Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for
    the following reasons:
     The car park is operated by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR). Cameras capture
    an image of vehicles entering and leaving the car park and calculate their length of stay on
    site.
     The car park in question is on private land and upon entering such land vehicles are subject
    to the terms and conditions of parking as shown on the signage. The signage quite clearly
    states that if your vehicle is in breach of the terms and conditions of the car park then a
    Parking Charge Notice will be issued.
     On entry to private land it is the responsibility of the driver to check for signage and ensure
    that your vehicle has been correctly parked. Any vehicles found not adhering to the signage
    will be issued with a Parking Charge Notice.
     The signage onsite clearly states ‘Authorised Vehicles Only’, your vehicle was not authorised
    to park in M&B - The Blackbird - Leicester – your full and correct vehicle registration was not
    registered via the console located on the premises, therefore the Parking Charge Notice was
    issued correctly and remains payable.
    Please make payment of the discounted amount of £50.00 by visiting our website at
    https://www.eurocarparks.com or use the automated telephone service 0203 553 4559. Alternatively make
    your cheque payable to Euro Car Parks Limited (to include a £2.50 handling charge for cheque
    processing) and post to Euro Car Parks Ltd, 30 Dorset Square, London, NW1 6QJ, quoting the PCN
    number on the reverse of the cheque.This amount is now due and the charge will be held for 14 days
    to allow time to make the payment. If payment is not received by this time the charge will increase to
    £85.00 and this may also result in the notice being passed to a third party with further charges
    applicable.
    You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure.

    It then gives information on appealing to POPLA.
    Do I use the same letter when appealing to POPLA ? Please can someone help with what words I need to use? Thanks.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,940 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    You simply copy a LONG POPLA appeal, dealing with a Notice to Hirer situation.

    Search for the forum for POPLA hirer and change the default to show POSTS.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Hi

    I appealed to POPLA by stating that :

    "
    I confirm to be the hirer on the day in question and the entire communication and information by Euro Car Parks is not compliant with the POFA requirements, especially for the following points:

    Euro Car Parks failed to refer to keeper liability in the first PCN (Notice to Keeper).

    The PCN/NTH that we received, as if it was a Notice to Hirer, had no enclosures at all. This means it was not compliant with the POFA 2012 (specifically, para 14) and as hirer, I cannot be held liable. Paragraph 14(2) and (3) of POFA 2012 covers transferring liability to a hirer, and it says:
    (2) The conditions are that —
    (a) The creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;
    (b) A period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed; and
    (c) The vehicle was not a stolen vehicle at the beginning of the period of parking

    ParkingEye failed to send the first PCN/NTK to the registered keeper (hire company) within 14 days. The parking event occurred on October 25th, and the first PCN/NTK is dated 11th November.

    Under these regulations, Parking Eye were required to send this information to me (as the hirer) and they did not. So the Notice to Hirer was not properly given and POPLA will need to inform the operator to cancel this charge."

    I also attached my copy of hire agreement with Hyundai.


    Euro car parks 22 page response summarised following my appeal with POPLA

    They have submitted to POPLA the evidence checklist and stated that

    An official appeal representation was received on the 04 December 2019 where I
    stated that I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am the keeper for the purpose of the
    corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”).

    They also mentioned that:

    I appealed the PCN and confirmed to be the hirer on the day in question,
    therefore the liability remains with me.
    Our PCN (Parking Charge Notice) is the first communication with the registered keeper – this is referred
    to as the Notice to Keeper or Notice To Owner
    The PCN (NTK/NTO) has been checked by both the BPA and the IPC and we have confirmation
    that our PCN (NTK/NTO) and has been approved as compliant with POFA
    The PCN (NTK/NTO) has been checked by Gladstones Solicitors who specialise in assisting
    private car park operators – legal advice and pre legal advice with regards signage and adhering
    to POFA and both code of practice
    Please be advised once the registered keeper has been sent the PCN (NTK/NTO) if there is no
    response, payment, appeal, serviceable address of the driver – ECP process a Notice To Keeper – this
    is a “reminder letter” and sent in reference to the PCN (NTK/NTO) that has not been responded to.
    If we are in receipt of a serviceable address of the driver – the PCN (NTK/NTO) is re-issued
    If the registered keeper is in receipt of the PCN (NTK/NTO) and has passed to the driver and the driver
    appeals – we will respond to the appeal strictly following the code and ensure any/all communication is
    sent to the driver (we would not at this stage re-issue the PCN)
    We have been advised that the above is standard practice for all private car park operators in regards
    to PCN (NTK/NTO) issued on Automatic Number Plate Recognition car parks.


    Furthermore they went onto challenge the following statement made by me:
    "
    Statement: He states that he is not liable for this parking charge: Euro Car Parks failed to comply
    with the strict requirements of POFA, The entire communication and information by Euro Car
    Parks was not compliant with the POFA requirements, especially for the following points: - Euro
    Car Parks failed to send the first PCN/NTK to the registered keeper (hire company) within 14
    days."

    and sent me photos of my number plate entering and coming out.

    I have now been given 7 days to add any further comments and need your help in what I should mention please.

    Thank you.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,940 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 28 December 2019 at 9:30PM
    You pick them up on what they missed in reply to what you said in the appeal.

    Did you ONLY appeal on that single point then, and didn't add in anything about signage or no landowner authority? Oh dear. That's not what was advised.

    I wish you had not supplied this, as POPLA might assume ECP did include it:
    I also attached my copy of hire agreement with Hyundai.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Ohh no .. I appealed ONLY once (after the 21 day lapse) against the fine imposed by ECP .. they declined and therefore appealed only ONCE with POPLA and attached my hire agreement. In ECP response, they also have attached hire response which they received from Hyundai.

    I did not mention anything about signage or no landowner authority. I mentioned about notice to keeper received and not notice to hirer as per to your first response which they have missed in their reply.

    What should I comment now ? Please can you help advise. thanks
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