Buying a carbon monoxide alarm

tealady

For people who are elderly or disabled might be worth speaking to your local fire brigade.
They came out and fitted smoke detectors free of charge for my elderly infirm mum.
I know the topic is CO monitors but it could help someone.

jefaz07

dimbo61 wrote: »

If the smoke alarm or CO alarm startes to bleep please contact your Landlord.
If there is no smoke or CO alarm ask the Landlord to fit one ASAP.
If it's your own home go out and buy some

Incorrect advice.
If your CO alarm starts to beep contact the gas emergency service immediately on 0800111999. They will be at your house within an hour to check it out for you!

FreeBear

jefaz07 wrote: »

Incorrect advice.
If your CO alarm starts to beep contact the gas emergency service immediately on 0800111999. They will be at your house within an hour to check it out for you!

Also incorrect - The gas emergency service won't be interested in a Carbon Monoxide alarm going off. Get yourself one of these - https://www.fireangel.co.uk/products/ng-9b - Then if it ever goes off, ring the emergency number.

If a CO alarm is going off, turn off the gas, open the windows, and vacate the property. Once the air has cleared, contact a heating engineer and get the boiler serviced/repaired.

FutureGirl

Mine expires June 2020 and was also bleeping to replace last week.

I emailed my LL and told them that I'd be getting a new one (as it was quicker for me to get one the same day - was only £24) - they just asked for the receipt to send me a cheque.

G_M

Why so expensive?


https://www.screwfix.com/p/fireangel-co-9b-co-alarm-led-display/25134

jefaz07

FreeBear wrote: »

Also incorrect - The gas emergency service won't be interested in a Carbon Monoxide alarm going off. Get yourself one of these - https://www.fireangel.co.uk/products/ng-9b - Then if it ever goes off, ring the emergency number.

If a CO alarm is going off, turn off the gas, open the windows, and vacate the property. Once the air has cleared, contact a heating engineer and get the boiler serviced/repaired.

Another ill advised post. I have no idea why you’d jump in and say that when you’re either guessing or unaware of how it works, perhaps looking for an argument, either way you need to stop and think about how much you know about a subject before telling someone their 100% correct advice is wrong.
And really should be removed. The gas emergency service are interested in these jobs. The instructions on the alarm probably tell you to ring the number I listed.
If there there is CO present doesn’t mean it’s coming from your property, so why ring a heating engineer, what are are they going to do about that? The gas emergency service have the equipment to detect and rights of entry should it be coming from a different property.
So no, it’s not incorrect. It’s 100% factual.
I suggest your DO NOT give advice such as this when it is so far wide of the mark it’s dangerous.

teddyrugspin

jefaz07 wrote: »

Incorrect advice.
If your CO alarm starts to beep contact the gas emergency service immediately on 0800111999. They will be at your house within an hour to check it out for you!

This happened to me about 3 years ago on New Years Eve. I was 90% sure that it was a faulty alarm (about ten years old), but rang the emergency services. They arrived and capped off the supply. They made no attempt to test for CO, and on a later complaint I was told they do not carry the equipment to run such a test. I was left with no heating over a freezing bank holiday, until I managed to get a gas safe plumber to turn out 2 days later.

Since then I have always had two CO detectors. If just one started beeping, I would assume it was faulty, turn off the gas supply myself, ventilate the house and go and buy a third, as a check. I would be very reluctant to call out the emergency service, if I thought it was likely to be a false alarm, based on my past experience.

I wanted to make this post 3 years ago, but held back because I wouldn't want to lead anyone else to consider a potentially dangerous path. But I think it is National Grid themselves who are at fault, because they run a cut-you-off without investigating the problem policy. they claim this is a safety-first approach, but I think it is simply pathetic to respond to a CO alarm without the equipment to verify whether there is CO present. Their cost-cutting undermines the service, and in so doing they create danger, because people who have suffered will hesitate before calling them out.

Of course none of this applies to a gas leak- which they do test for (or so I assume).

jefaz07

teddyrugspin wrote: »

This happened to me about 3 years ago on New Years Eve. I was 90% sure that it was a faulty alarm (about ten years old), but rang the emergency services. They arrived and capped off the supply. They made no attempt to test for CO, and on a later complaint I was told they do not carry the equipment to run such a test. I was left with no heating over a freezing bank holiday, until I managed to get a gas safe plumber to turn out 2 days later.

Since then I have always had two CO detectors. If just one started beeping, I would assume it was faulty, turn off the gas supply myself, ventilate the house and go and buy a third, as a check. I would be very reluctant to call out the emergency service, if I thought it was likely to be a false alarm, based on my past experience.

I wanted to make this post 3 years ago, but held back because I wouldn't want to lead anyone else to consider a potentially dangerous path. But I think it is National Grid themselves who are at fault, because they run a cut-you-off without investigating the problem policy. they claim this is a safety-first approach, but I think it is simply pathetic to respond to a CO alarm without the equipment to verify whether there is CO present. Their cost-cutting undermines the service, and in so doing they create danger, because people who have suffered will hesitate before calling them out.

Of course none of this applies to a gas leak- which they do test for (or so I assume).

Well I’m one of these engineers and I guarantee my machines test for carbon monoxide.
I’ve forced entry into neighbouring properties on numerous occasions as CO was originating there and without my attendance the story would’ve been so much different.
You will be turned off as a matter of course (either capped or just the handle dropped) depending on what you report. This is in the GIUSP which isn’t written by the networks but must be adhered to like any other gas safe engineer, so turning you off isn’t the fault of the engineer or company.
The section reads;

6.2.3 Additional guidance for ESP engineers attending reports of fumes
When an ESP engineer (or LPG Supplier’s emergency response engineer) is called to a report of fumes, a visual inspection of the gas appliances in the property shall be carried out. Where no obvious unsafe situations are identified, a “Danger Do Not Use” label shall be attached to all appliances and with the users permission all appliances shall be turned off.
ESPs have their own procedures for dealing with CO alarms activated due to reasons other than the presence of CO e.g. end of life or battery failure.
The Warning Notice shall state:
“Appliances have been visually inspected by an emergency service engineer who cannot confirm that they are safe to use. The appliances should not be used until they have been checked by a Gas Safe registered business”.

Note the use of the work ‘Shall’. It’s not optional. It’s written and must be followed, it’s the individual engineer who gets it if anything goes wrong or strays from what they have to do. Do you think I’d risk your safety or my freedom/livelihood because you’re not happy with the procedures? Absolutely not!!
As stated there is a whole procedure to follow on receipt of a CO job.
This includes checks adjacent and below.
Machines are calibrated every 28 days and have pre set alarms for the presence of Methane, O2, CO at certain levels. If the machine is not calibrated then it will not switch on.
It is also an OFGEM incentive to brief the customer about CO...so that’s what we do, issue a brief about CO and ask the customer to sign to say they have received one.

I cannot stress enough it’s not always your property where the fault lies.
They’re not there to fix your appliances, they are there to keep you alive and your property standing.

teddyrugspin

jefaz07 wrote: »

Well I’m one of these engineers and I guarantee my machines test for carbon monoxide.

Well I'm glad to hear that you carry a machine that checks for CO. I was flabbergasted when I was told that such machines were not carried by engineers. This was in an official response to complaint letter, so I'd assumed that it was National Grid's actual policy and practice. Perhaps it was in 2017, and things have improved?
My house is detached, with no other building within 20+ meters. No attempt was made to test anything inside the building, though I didn't follow him out to the meter The only 'test' he did was to take the bleeping alarm out and put it on the grass. Apparently if it was a genuine CO alarm, it might have cleared in the fresh air. It continued to bleep for the next ten minutes and he disabled it with a screwdriver through the body of the machine! So the only 'CO test' indicated a faulty alarm rather than actual CO.
I'd love to believe that it was a rogue engineer keen to get off for New Year without spending time investigating. But National Grid stated in writing that they do (did?) not carry the necessary equipment because policy was always to disconnect, rather than investigate.

I take your point that 'They are not there to fix your appliances' and that in the case of a faulty gas appliance the appropriate response would be to disconnect and get the customer to have it fixed by a gas safe engineer at a later date. However this was not a faulty gas appliance. It was a faulty alarm, and I, and the emergency response engineer were both fairly sure that such was the case. However he had to do a disconnection, because that was what policy dictated, and he had no equipment to verify the actual situation.

So my understanding is that if National Grid hear your alarm beeping, you get disconnected. No ifs , no buts. Can a spokesperson from National Grid confirm/deny this? If it remains true, can it be justified without trotting out the mantra that CO is very dangerous, and they have to put safety first.

jefaz07

teddyrugspin wrote: »

Well I'm glad to hear that you carry a machine that checks for CO. I was flabbergasted when I was told that such machines were not carried by engineers. This was in an official response to complaint letter, so I'd assumed that it was National Grid's actual policy and practice. Perhaps it was in 2017, and things have improved?
My house is detached, with no other building within 20+ meters. No attempt was made to test anything inside the building, though I didn't follow him out to the meter The only 'test' he did was to take the bleeping alarm out and put it on the grass. Apparently if it was a genuine CO alarm, it might have cleared in the fresh air. It continued to bleep for the next ten minutes and he disabled it with a screwdriver through the body of the machine! So the only 'CO test' indicated a faulty alarm rather than actual CO.
I'd love to believe that it was a rogue engineer keen to get off for New Year without spending time investigating. But National Grid stated in writing that they do (did?) not carry the necessary equipment because policy was always to disconnect, rather than investigate.

I take your point that 'They are not there to fix your appliances' and that in the case of a faulty gas appliance the appropriate response would be to disconnect and get the customer to have it fixed by a gas safe engineer at a later date. However this was not a faulty gas appliance. It was a faulty alarm, and I, and the emergency response engineer were both fairly sure that such was the case. However he had to do a disconnection, because that was what policy dictated, and he had no equipment to verify the actual situation.

So my understanding is that if National Grid hear your alarm beeping, you get disconnected. No ifs , no buts. Can a spokesperson from National Grid confirm/deny this? If it remains true, can it be justified without trotting out the mantra that CO is very dangerous, and they have to put safety first.

Your understanding is correct, You will EITHER be disconnected OR, as a minimum, the appliance(s) turned off and labelled, even if no CO is detected.
I have placed the section in which it states this in my comment above, they have no choice.
A lot of engineers aren’t qualified to work on your boiler, so aren’t able to take the case off and see if there is an issue inside with seals etc, hence the ‘visual inspection’ nor do they carry an analyser which test the flue gasses to ensure the boiler is operating correctly.