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Unable to return deposit!
Hi All.
Highly unusual case this one, any help gratefully appreciated.
Former car dealer asked to sell a fairly high end classic car on behalf of the owner at a commission, if sold. All monies are to be paid directly to the owner of the car.
Advertised the car etc and had a viewing not long afterwards.
An offer of £70k was accepted by the owner, a 2k deposit was taken. Only a receipt for 2k being issued with no signature or bill of sale etc.
A list of works was asked for along with the usual PDI.
On servicing the car we noticed that the engine was emitting too much smoke from it's engine after the oil was changed, after several checks we discovered that the bottom end of the engine was worn ( wet and dry compression test ). A stop smoke additive must have been in there prior to the oil change to cloak the excessive emissions.
Advised the owner of the seriousness of the issue with an anticipated cost of £30k plus for the engine to be overhauled.
We both decided that we should pull the car from the sale as it is simply not fit for purpose and advise the prospective purchaser of the problem of which video footage was sent as evidence.
We asked to repay the deposit with our deepest apologies.
He refuses to except the money back and is insisting that the engine be rebuilt through Aston Martin Works and delivered to him whereupon he will pay the balance.
If the car cannot be produced he is claiming the full cost of the car plus interest and costs, to the sum of 90k plus.
He has now put a court claim in.
Despite our best and honourable attempts to send back his deposit he is now claiming full legal entitlement of the car.
Any suggestions?
Thank you
Highly unusual case this one, any help gratefully appreciated.
Former car dealer asked to sell a fairly high end classic car on behalf of the owner at a commission, if sold. All monies are to be paid directly to the owner of the car.
Advertised the car etc and had a viewing not long afterwards.
An offer of £70k was accepted by the owner, a 2k deposit was taken. Only a receipt for 2k being issued with no signature or bill of sale etc.
A list of works was asked for along with the usual PDI.
On servicing the car we noticed that the engine was emitting too much smoke from it's engine after the oil was changed, after several checks we discovered that the bottom end of the engine was worn ( wet and dry compression test ). A stop smoke additive must have been in there prior to the oil change to cloak the excessive emissions.
Advised the owner of the seriousness of the issue with an anticipated cost of £30k plus for the engine to be overhauled.
We both decided that we should pull the car from the sale as it is simply not fit for purpose and advise the prospective purchaser of the problem of which video footage was sent as evidence.
We asked to repay the deposit with our deepest apologies.
He refuses to except the money back and is insisting that the engine be rebuilt through Aston Martin Works and delivered to him whereupon he will pay the balance.
If the car cannot be produced he is claiming the full cost of the car plus interest and costs, to the sum of 90k plus.
He has now put a court claim in.
Despite our best and honourable attempts to send back his deposit he is now claiming full legal entitlement of the car.
Any suggestions?
Thank you
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Comments
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What paperwork is in place? Who is the purchase contract between?Former car dealer asked to sell a fairly high end classic car on behalf of the owner at a commission, if sold. All monies are to be paid directly to the owner of the car.
No paperwork at all? A holding deposit on a £70k deal with not one jot of paperwork...? <gibber>An offer of £70k was accepted by the owner, a 2k deposit was taken. Only a receipt for 2k being issued with no signature or bill of sale etc.
The correct thing to do.We both decided that we should pull the car from the sale as it is simply not fit for purpose and advise the prospective purchaser of the problem of which video footage was sent as evidence.
We asked to repay the deposit with our deepest apologies.
It needs to be robustly defended, obvs. But he hasn't got a hope of winning. He's trying it on.He refuses to except the money back and is insisting that the engine be rebuilt through Aston Martin Works and delivered to him whereupon he will pay the balance.
If the car cannot be produced he is claiming the full cost of the car plus interest and costs, to the sum of 90k plus.
He has now put a court claim in.
Gotta love a comedian.Despite our best and honourable attempts to send back his deposit he is now claiming full legal entitlement of the car.
Get specialist professional legal help.Any suggestions?0 -
Most people will come on here saying paid £2,000 deposit but car has issues and dealer not returning deposit...this is the other way around.
Surely send letter stating car is withdrawn from sale, confirm your bank details so a full refund of the holding deposit can be made, and leave it at that.
The ONLY proof of ownership would be a receipt for the full amount for a vehicle - all he has is a receipt for a deposit.0 -
As the prospective purchaser viewed the car then subsequently accepted it by paying a deposit, could it be argued that they were willing to accept the car in the condition it was when they made their offer and on that basis, give them two choices, accept the car in the condition it was in when bought, or agree to a cancellation of the contract.0
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And the car is no longer available in the condition it was believed to be in. A mechanical fault has been found that has rendered it unsaleable under the original terms.shaun_from_Africa wrote: »As the prospective purchaser viewed the car then subsequently accepted it by paying a deposit, could it be argued that they were willing to accept the car in the condition it was when they made their offer and on that basis, give them two choices, accept the car in the condition it was in when bought, or agree to a cancellation of the contract.
The OP appears to be on the vendor's side - either the commission seller or the previous keeper. They're trying to give the deposit back, the putative buyer is insisting on expensive work within the original purchase price - itself unrealistic - or "return" of a very large amount of money that he simply has never paid.
He's handed over £2k. The contract cannot be performed. He is owed his £2k back. He is NOT owed £70k + interest + costs...0 -
..If the car cannot be produced he is claiming the full cost of the car plus interest and costs, to the sum of 90k plus.
He has now put a court claim in.
A County Court claim will have cost him 5% or 4.5% of £90,000 depending on whether he did it on paper or online.
That is a minimum of over £4,000.
Is he very stupid as I don't think he stands a snowballs chance of winning? I cannot see any valid basis for his claims. Or is he just trying it on and attempting to bluff you.
Is he suing for Loss of Bargain?
As above you need to take professional advice. That might cost you a few hundred pounds but would probably be money well spent.
Edit: On reflection, you might be able sufficient advice on one of the free legal forums where professional lawyers post. I doubt if many posters on this forum are qualified lawyers.A man walked into a car showroom.
He said to the salesman, “My wife would like to talk to you about the Volkswagen Golf in the showroom window.”
Salesman said, “We haven't got a Volkswagen Golf in the showroom window.”
The man replied, “You have now mate".0 -
Hi Guys,
Firstly, thank you for your replies.
As for paperwork, I issued him a receipt for the 2k deposit only. Final sales invoice would have been produced on the full balance being received. All correspondence thereafter was by way of email to keep him updated on the job in hand.
When the fault presented itself and from the discussion I had with the owner only then did I email him with an attachment of the video demonstrating the fault.
He was insistent that the car be repaired by AML works and to be delivered thereafter, ignoring the problem as such.
Despite asking several times on a method to pay back the 2K deposit I sent a cheque by registered post. He never cashed this in. He did however admit within the court papers that he had received it but decided not to present it to his bank as it was from me (the garage, having accepted the deposit by card machine) and not the owner?
He is presently taking the owner to court for the sum of 90k plus
Being a conscientious type I feel I must help, indeed I am very involved.
I'm now discovering that this chap has previous for winning claims. Never having been in this predicament before I am unsure of what is law. The owner is engaging a solicitor but I feel I should do my bit to assist where I can.
It simply does not sound right by any stretch of the imagination.0 -
Leave it to the owner's solicitor. The owner will be paying him for the advice given. I doubt you can add anything to that.
What's happened to your cheque that you attempted to return the deposit by? Was the deposit originally paid to you or to the owner? If it was to the owner, why did you try to repay it?0 -
So you're the commission-selling trader...?As for paperwork, I issued him a receipt for the 2k deposit only.
Irrelevant.He did however admit within the court papers that he had received it but decided not to present it to his bank as it was from me (the garage, having accepted the deposit by card machine) and not the owner?
Winning, launching, or just threatening...?He is presently taking the owner to court for the sum of 90k plus
Being a conscientious type I feel I must help, indeed I am very involved.
I'm now discovering that this chap has previous for winning claims.
There is NINETY GRAND at stake. Get a flippin' lawyer...Never having been in this predicament before I am unsure of what is law. The owner is engaging a solicitor but I feel I should do my bit to assist where I can.
It isn't. He doesn't have a hope. BUT... unless you and the owner get your ducks in a row, there's a fighting chance that "doesn't have a hope" can triumph over "well-meaning incompetence". And that's going to be expensive...It simply does not sound right by any stretch of the imagination.
Remember, you're deemed to know what you're doing, since you're a trader. You can't simply buck-pass back to the owner by saying "Well, I wasn't really involved, it was just between those two private individuals."0 -
Yes, a commission selling trader, at the time.
I would have thought, if he refused the cheque from me but excepted a cheque from the owner then surely it would have morphed into a private sale between the two.
Yes, I believe he has a tendency to win cases... so he say's.
I'll get my own independent advice on this one. I'll let you know of the outcome.
Cheers0
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