Life of battery pack in EV car

Mr_S_in_Easton

As battery powered cars get cheaper, I'm thinking about buying a second hand model - especially as I live in the south-west (see proposed ban on diesel cars here in Briz...) What doesn't seem to get discussed much is what happens when the car's battery pack gets to the end of its life - is it possible to replace them? I suppose its not much different to replacing the engine in an ICE car - ie you can do it, but most owners don't... any thoughts?

DUTR

Mr_S_in_Easton wrote: »

As battery powered cars get cheaper, I'm thinking about buying a second hand model - especially as I live in the south-west (see proposed ban on diesel cars here in Briz...) What doesn't seem to get discussed much is what happens when the car's battery pack gets to the end of its life - is it possible to replace them? I suppose its not much different to replacing the engine in an ICE car - ie you can do it, but most owners don't... any thoughts?

If it costs as much or more to replace the battery pack then folk will do their own maths and decide which path to take.

oldagetraveller

And just think how "green" it is come disposal time.

Mr_S_in_Easton

... I wish there were more fuel cell powered cars around. These battery powered vehicles aren't quite as 'green' as some folk would have us think, what with rare earths, high energy requirement to manufacture, extra demand on (fossil fuel powered) power generation, battery dispoasl etc. etc. etc.

AdrianC

Mr_S_in_Easton wrote: »

especially as I live in the south-west (see proposed ban on diesel cars here in Briz...)

The diesel ban in Bristol may affect a very small area of the centre, if it's approved.

The wider "Clean Air Zone" is commercial vehicle only.

Why not just use the park and rides?

Arklight

Impossible to say without a crystal ball. Depends on the make, depends on the battery, depends how much 3rd party support there is in X number of years time when you need to do it.

Chris Fix shows you how to swap out a knackered battery on a Prius. In his case at least, he bought a Prius which was fine mechanically, but virtually worthless with only main dealer parts and labour prices to replace the dead battery. He added thousands to it by buying a relatively cheap replacement battery from a company in Canada, and fitting it himself.

There are a lot of steps to the fitting, but it doesn't look especially difficult. I can imagine that EV manufacturers in the future will do their best using firmware to lock out 3rd party battery replacements.


https://www.reddit.com/r/prius/comments/9xoq58/chrisfix_replace_your_prius_battery_change/

alembicbassman

Some old Prius battery packs are being re-purposed for domestic electricity storage. This means you can store solar energy yourself for use later.

Even if they don't hold enough charge for the car they still hold enough for some domestic applications.

VW are guaranteeing their latest battery packs will still retain 70% of their charge after 10 years.

There are probably some conditions on this though.

Li-Ion packs don't like to be discharged to zero, before charging and it can shorten their life if quick charged too often.

I'd probably give it another 5 years or so before buying a second hand EV - the tech will have moved on quite a bit by then and prices will have dropped on the used market.

almillar

What doesn't seem to get discussed much is what happens when the car's battery pack gets to the end of its life - is it possible to replace them?

Yes. It happens very rarely at the moment and will be prohibitively expensive - you'll have to get it through the manufacturer, and they're busy building nice new cars. Upgrading a 22kWh Renault Zoe wasn't worth it vs starting again with a 41kWh one. And end of life is just end of life in car. It comes out of the car, could be refurbished, and put back into one. Replace (and recycle, to get back all that precious stuff) any bad cells in the pack and away you go. Another use is, of course as batteries at home or on the grid. At home, you would generally have around 5kWh of battery along with solar, nowhere near as much as even early EVs have. Also plenty of uses on the grid and at chargers.

And just think how "green" it is come disposal time.

Very much of the car is either re-usable or recycleable. How much petrol or diesel has been recycled?

... I wish there were more fuel cell powered cars around.

And filling stations, presumably?!! Also look into how hydrogen gets into your car. It's a long process.

Anyway, nobody knows yet, but I would hope that we would have a third party industry that can sell and fit refurbished batteries to fit into old EVs. The problem is that most of the value in an old EV could be in the battery, making the rest of it scrap.

Li-Ion packs don't like to be discharged to zero, before charging and it can shorten their life if quick charged too often.

And a car's BMS won't allow it to be discharged to (true) 0% or 100% - there will be buffers either side.

AdrianC

almillar wrote: »

...but I would hope that we would have a third party industry that can sell and fit refurbished batteries to fit into old EVs.

I strongly suspect it'll turn out that there's a lot of security coding going on, which will actively prevent anything along those lines.

HHarry

The battery in my Brothers Tesla has just gone pop at 60k miles.

Being replaced under warranty - cost unknown.