"Reasonable overtime "

Undervalued

Ianthedriver wrote: »

Well, at interview it was stated that hours worked would vary at different times of the year, but this has now changed to a continual requirement. Being continually tired when behind the wheel of a roadtanker is not an ideal situation.
I don't want to leave the job, only to work perhaps a 50 - 55 hour week.
Can the position really be that I'm being UNreasonable ?

Sadly that is irrelevant.

What matters, if you can't resolve this informally with your employer, is whether they are acting in a way that a tribunal would find legally unfair.

Bugslett is an expert in the haulage field (which I why I drew her attention to your thread) but ultimately you need to seek one to one professional advice from your union.

General_Grant

Ianthedriver wrote: »

Yes. There are plenty of hgv agencies looking for drivers. Of course you have zero " rights " with them.
I am a union member,my employer does not recognise unions. I would have legal representation at a tribunal though.
I don't want to leave my job , where I have been employed for many years.

As well as getting help with a Tribunal, though your employer "does not recognise unions", you still have the right to be accompanied by a TU official at disciplinary meetings. And, I believe, if enough members of staff joined, they could insist on recognition (I'm willing to be corrected on this latter point!).

bugslett

Ianthedriver wrote: »

Well, at interview it was stated that hours worked would vary at different times of the year, but this has now changed to a continual requirement. Being continually tired when behind the wheel of a roadtanker is not an ideal situation.
I don't want to leave the job, only to work perhaps a 50 - 55 hour week.
Can the position really be that I'm being UNreasonable ?

As undervalued says, you may not be being unreasonable, but I cannot see that your firm is operating illegally.

Without an in depth understanding of contractual changes implemented by your firms customers, visibility of their finances, understanding of their competitors none of us can comment on the change.

What I would say is that you need to be careful about talking about being too tired to drive. On that you also have responsibility not to drive it you are unfit. If you were to ring in and say you were unable to drive due to tiredness your firm would have an obligation to not allow you to drive. And you could do that the odd time. But the fact is that unless there is some medical reason for your tiredness, your employer would be entitled to question your suitability for the work if it became a regular occurrence.

As a union member, I would make them your first port of call.

ohreally

Ianthedriver wrote: »

I am a union member,my employer does not recognise unions.

Then perhaps its the time to break the status quo, this is surely an organising issue to get membership density, the employer may not have much say in the matter, machinery exists to obtain recognition...https://www.gov.uk/guidance/trade-union-recognition-how-to-apply-to-the-cac#make-a-request-to-the-employer

Ianthedriver

My employer is not acting illegally.
Legally I can work 15 hrs a day,3 times a week and 13 hrs a day on the other days.
My querie is, when my contract asks me to carry out " a reasonable amount of overtime " , what is reasonable, on an ongoing basis.
Legally I can work 60 hrs per week plus breaks and periods (at work ) when I'm not actually working.
Would 50-55 be reasonable?

bugslett

Ianthedriver wrote: »

My employer is not acting illegally.
Legally I can work 15 hrs a day,3 times a week and 13 hrs a day on the other days.
My querie is, when my contract asks me to carry out " a reasonable amount of overtime " , what is reasonable, on an ongoing basis.
Legally I can work 60 hrs per week plus breaks and periods (at work ) when I'm not actually working.
Would 50-55 be reasonable?

As before, if it's legal it's reasonable. It is legal, so it is reasonable.

It's a catch all phrase in your contract.

It doesnt matter that they used to ask you to do less overtime, the operational needs of the business have changed and they now require you to do more.

You think doing 50-55 hours is reasonable. Another colleague might think doing 65 is reasonable. Another colleague might think 46-50 is reasonable. So reasonable from what you think as a driver doesnt come into it, it's what is legal and as you have said, it is legal.

ohreally

I wouldn't last a week in the haulage industry

Ianthedriver

Sadly I think you are correct,in that reasonable can be interpreted as the maximum legally permissible by my employer.

bugslett

ohreally wrote: »

I wouldn't last a week in the haulage industry

It's always been a long hours culture. In my 50s I slowed down to around 55 hours a week but I did decades in the 70-80 hours routinely.

Ianthedriver wrote: »

Sadly I think you are correct,in that reasonable can be interpreted as the maximum legally permissible by my employer.

Sorry!

Have a look around. Depending where you are you will probably get a job easily and as I said, maybe 4 on 4 off would suit you better which is likely to always be 48 ish hours. I understand about having the years in at this company, but if you aren't happy and you feel that you aren't completely safe,then it's just not worth it.

Good luck.

Ianthedriver

Well they can.
This is probably the most heavily regulated Industry with regards to working time, and,at the same time, the one which demands employees work excessive hours.
I know drivers of LPG and Petrol tankers who put in 70 hrs week after week. This is legal.
Working time directive is a laughable EU law.