"Reasonable overtime "

Ianthedriver

I am a HGV driver. My contracted hours are 45/week, but it is expected that I work " reasonable overtime "
The maximum hours I can legally work is 60 plus breaks of 3.75, so 63.75/week.
I am routinely scheduled for 12 to 14 hours per day.
My query is, what is reasonable? .
Employers interpretation is " the maximum permitted by law"

I say 10 hrs/week, is more than reasonable.

Anyone know the laws perspective on this
Ian

TELLIT01

There won't be a legal definition of "reasonable overtime" as far as I am aware. There is clearly a big difference between what you think is reasonable and what your employer expects. If you are unhappy about the amount you need to speak to your employer / manager in the first instance. If that has no effect you really have few options (1) Do the amount of overtime you believe is reasonable and refuse to work more (2) Give in and do the requested hours (3) Look for another job.

Ianthedriver

Yes.
I have approached my manager with no success.
Reasonable to a younger employee with loads of energy, is different to one in his sixties. This is something they refuse to recognise.
Apart from this, being forced to work yo the legal maximum each week us not only something I don't want to do ,as it is affecting family life, it is simply unsafe.
Am I right in thinking that I have to stick to my guns, accept the possibility of dismissal, then have a court/tribunal decide.?

Undervalued

Ianthedriver wrote: »

Yes.
I have approached my manager with no success.
Reasonable to a younger employee with loads of energy, is different to one in his sixties. This is something they refuse to recognise.
Apart from this, being forced to work yo the legal maximum each week us not only something I don't want to do ,as it is affecting family life, it is simply unsafe.
Am I right in thinking that I have to stick to my guns, accept the possibility of dismissal, then have a court/tribunal decide.?

Basically yes I'm afraid. Remember that lawyers make a significant amount of their income from arguing about what is reasonable! There is certainly an argument to be made that "reasonable overtime" should not mean the legal maximum ever week. However....

It could be unlawful for the employer to discriminate on the grounds of age so your argument that it is OK for a younger employee but not for you may not work.

Rightly or wrongly the law sets a maximum number of hours for this type of work. Arguing that it is "unsafe" for you to do that number of hours could be saying that you are not medically fit enough?

Be careful how you approach this and take proper legal advice. Are you a member of a union?

Browntoa

As long as you are getting your legally required rest breaks and off days and not driving more than the maximum hours per day then they are legally ok .

ohreally

Apart from the moral arguments there is obviously health and safety at play as well. I assume you've put it to your employer you are capable to fulfill your core hours but going beyond this is extremely fatiguing and may bring concentration concerns in addition to taking a physical toll that your finding more difficult to manage.

Are you a member of a union with access to an appointed health and safety rep?

How long are you employed there?

Edit: perhaps ask bugslet her thoughts on this.

Lomast

They can't force you to work over 48 hours a week but you need to decide how much you want to keep the job before you make a fuss but I would of thought there were plenty of other hgv jobs going they always seem to be advertising round my area

Undervalued

ohreally wrote: »

Apart from the moral arguments there is obviously health and safety at play as well. I assume you've put it to your employer you are capable to fulfill your core hours but going beyond this is extremely fatiguing and may bring concentration concerns in addition to taking a physical toll that your finding more difficult to manage.

Are you a member of a union with access to an appointed health and safety rep?

How long are you employed there?

Edit: perhaps ask bugslet her thoughts on this.

Yes, she would be the ideal person.

Doesn't seem to post in this section anything like as often as she once did. Also she had to change to a slightly different user name earlier in the year....

Now bugslett (two Ts)

I have sent her a pm with a link to this thread.

bugslett

On a personal note, I think the long hours that the haulage industry routinely requires drivers to do is bonkers, however that is an opinion and

Browntoa wrote: »

As long as you are getting your legally required rest breaks and off days and not driving more than the maximum hours per day then they are legally ok .

I agree with browntoa.


I think if you wanted to push it, a tribunal would side with your employer.

What I do find odd is (and I presume you have been a truck driver for some years) that you weren't clearer at your interview what you were prepared to do. The wording of reasonable overtime is standard and anyone that has worked in haulage for longer than a month knows that means maxing hours quite often. I accept that many employers can be conservative when discussing expected hours.

With reference to WTD (RTR), one of the most pointless pieces of legislation ever, the use of PoA (Periods of Availability) means that you can be at work for 65 hours but 'work' 40 hours. An extreme example would come from my line of haulage. We had trucks double manned meaning that the truck could run for 21 hours non stop. Say the drivers each drove for ten hours and each did work of 1 hour, then they have worked for 11 hours. Time spent sitting in the passenger seat was counted as PoA and not work. Ridiculous.

If you want better clarity on hours and the management are not able for operational reasons to reduce your hours, I would go and look for something like a 4 on 4 off 12 hour shift pattern.

Your wish is my command Undervalued;)

Ianthedriver

Yes. There are plenty of hgv agencies looking for drivers. Of course you have zero " rights " with them.
I am a union member,my employer does not recognise unions. I would have legal representation at a tribunal though.
I don't want to leave my job , where I have been employed for many years.

Ianthedriver

Well, at interview it was stated that hours worked would vary at different times of the year, but this has now changed to a continual requirement. Being continually tired when behind the wheel of a roadtanker is not an ideal situation.
I don't want to leave the job, only to work perhaps a 50 - 55 hour week.
Can the position really be that I'm being UNreasonable ?